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Isn't this pretty much the definition of a meme? I mean before meme just became synonymous with funny cat videos. Like the actual meaning of the word.

komali2 9mo ago
Snow Crash explored this much more literally, supposing that there may be memes so powerful they can function basically as magic spells that reprogram people's brains.
- shawn_w 9mo ago
  See also John Barnes' Century Next Door books, where "memes" are basically computer viruses that jump to running on human brains, not just silicon chips. The results are... not pretty.
- TeMPOraL 9mo ago
  My favorite example is actually one that I believe could be true[0]: self-reinforcing cycles of human conflict, that resemble the life cycle of a parasite. From an old (2014) SlateStarCodex essay[1]. Some of it is going to be controversial read today[2], so I'll just give you the relevant "money quote" from the end: <quote> What would it mean for a meme to have a life cycle as complicated as toxoplasma? Consider the war on terror. They say that every time the United States bombs Pakistan or Afghanistan or somewhere, all we’re doing is radicalizing the young people there and making more terrorists. Those terrorists then go on to kill Americans, which makes Americans get very angry and call for more bombing of Pakistan and Afghanistan. Taken as a meme, it’s a single parasite with two hosts and two forms. In an Afghan host, it appears in a form called ‘jihad’, and hijacks its host into killing himself in order to spread it to its second, American host. In the American host it morphs in a form called ‘the war on terror’, and it hijacks the Americans into giving their own lives (and tax dollars) to spread it back to its Afghan host in the form of bombs. From the human point of view, jihad and the War on Terror are opposing forces. From the memetic point of view, they’re as complementary as caterpillars and butterflies. Instead of judging, we just note that somehow we accidentally created a replicator, and replicators are going to replicate until something makes them stop. </quote> -- [0] - In whatever sense models are "true", i.e. a nice way to describe reality, that's succinct and has good predictive power, or something. [1] - https://www.slatestarcodexabridged.com/The-Toxoplasma-Of-Rage https://www.slatestarcodexabridged.com/The-Toxoplasma-Of-Rag... [2] - Which is not the same thing as saying it turned out wrong.
  - andrei_says_ 9mo ago
    For more ideas - One can definitely see multigenerational patterns of abuse and trauma as self reproducing parasites.
  - iterateoften 9mo ago
    Also the most successful parasites have defense mechanisms to protect it. The process of radicalization and cultural heritage in general is a type of defense to make sure the parasite survives.
  - adolph 9mo ago
    Vervaeke makes a claim of parasitism explicit in the Meaning Crisis series. We call this Parasitic Processing because it's like a parasite in that it takes up life within you, and it takes life away from you! It causes you to lose your agency. It causes you to suffer. And here's what's important. This capacity for your cognitive brain to be self organizing, heuristic using, complexify, to create complex systems and functions with emergent abilities, has a downside to it. This is a complex, self-organising, adaptive system! If you try and intervene here the rest of the system reorganizes itself around your attempted intervention. It can adapt and preserve itself as you tried to destroy it. Why? Because it's making use of the very machinery by which You adapt, and make use of the things that are trying to destroy You! https://www.meaningcrisis.co/ep-13-awakening-from-the-meaning-crisis-buddhism-and-parasitic-processing/ https://www.meaningcrisis.co/ep-13-awakening-from-the-meanin...
    - horacemorace 9mo ago
      There are malicious ads linked from that site. Do not recommend.
      - adolph 9mo ago
        My apologies, I use an ad blocker and did not notice. The website is a transcript of the YouTube lecture series and can be found there if people wish to delve further. Unfortunately I no longer have an edit option on the comment.
- Root_Denied 9mo ago
  The SCP Foundation pages[0] have something similar, a danger classification for "Memetic Hazards" which are basically informational viruses that affect memory, cognition, and perception. [0] - https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/understanding-memetics https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/understanding-memetics
- heavyset_go 9mo ago
  https://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/blit.htm https://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/blit.htm
mr_toad 9mo ago
Dawkins original definition was an idea that replicated unchanged, in an analogy to a gene, which is essentially a unit of DNA small enough to replicate unchanged.
- rcxdude 9mo ago
  mostly unchanged (or rather, unchanged most of the time). Mutations still happen and are necessary for evolution.

komali2 9mo ago

Snow Crash explored this much more literally, supposing that there may be memes so powerful they can function basically as magic spells that reprogram people's brains.

shawn_w 9mo ago
See also John Barnes' Century Next Door books, where "memes" are basically computer viruses that jump to running on human brains, not just silicon chips. The results are... not pretty.
TeMPOraL 9mo ago
My favorite example is actually one that I believe could be true[0]: self-reinforcing cycles of human conflict, that resemble the life cycle of a parasite. From an old (2014) SlateStarCodex essay[1]. Some of it is going to be controversial read today[2], so I'll just give you the relevant "money quote" from the end: <quote> What would it mean for a meme to have a life cycle as complicated as toxoplasma? Consider the war on terror. They say that every time the United States bombs Pakistan or Afghanistan or somewhere, all we’re doing is radicalizing the young people there and making more terrorists. Those terrorists then go on to kill Americans, which makes Americans get very angry and call for more bombing of Pakistan and Afghanistan. Taken as a meme, it’s a single parasite with two hosts and two forms. In an Afghan host, it appears in a form called ‘jihad’, and hijacks its host into killing himself in order to spread it to its second, American host. In the American host it morphs in a form called ‘the war on terror’, and it hijacks the Americans into giving their own lives (and tax dollars) to spread it back to its Afghan host in the form of bombs. From the human point of view, jihad and the War on Terror are opposing forces. From the memetic point of view, they’re as complementary as caterpillars and butterflies. Instead of judging, we just note that somehow we accidentally created a replicator, and replicators are going to replicate until something makes them stop. </quote> -- [0] - In whatever sense models are "true", i.e. a nice way to describe reality, that's succinct and has good predictive power, or something. [1] - https://www.slatestarcodexabridged.com/The-Toxoplasma-Of-Rage https://www.slatestarcodexabridged.com/The-Toxoplasma-Of-Rag... [2] - Which is not the same thing as saying it turned out wrong.
- andrei_says_ 9mo ago
  For more ideas - One can definitely see multigenerational patterns of abuse and trauma as self reproducing parasites.
- iterateoften 9mo ago
  Also the most successful parasites have defense mechanisms to protect it. The process of radicalization and cultural heritage in general is a type of defense to make sure the parasite survives.
- adolph 9mo ago
  Vervaeke makes a claim of parasitism explicit in the Meaning Crisis series. We call this Parasitic Processing because it's like a parasite in that it takes up life within you, and it takes life away from you! It causes you to lose your agency. It causes you to suffer. And here's what's important. This capacity for your cognitive brain to be self organizing, heuristic using, complexify, to create complex systems and functions with emergent abilities, has a downside to it. This is a complex, self-organising, adaptive system! If you try and intervene here the rest of the system reorganizes itself around your attempted intervention. It can adapt and preserve itself as you tried to destroy it. Why? Because it's making use of the very machinery by which You adapt, and make use of the things that are trying to destroy You! https://www.meaningcrisis.co/ep-13-awakening-from-the-meaning-crisis-buddhism-and-parasitic-processing/ https://www.meaningcrisis.co/ep-13-awakening-from-the-meanin...
  - horacemorace 9mo ago
    There are malicious ads linked from that site. Do not recommend.
    - adolph 9mo ago
      My apologies, I use an ad blocker and did not notice. The website is a transcript of the YouTube lecture series and can be found there if people wish to delve further. Unfortunately I no longer have an edit option on the comment.
Root_Denied 9mo ago
The SCP Foundation pages[0] have something similar, a danger classification for "Memetic Hazards" which are basically informational viruses that affect memory, cognition, and perception. [0] - https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/understanding-memetics https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/understanding-memetics
heavyset_go 9mo ago
https://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/blit.htm https://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/blit.htm

mr_toad 9mo ago

Dawkins original definition was an idea that replicated unchanged, in an analogy to a gene, which is essentially a unit of DNA small enough to replicate unchanged.

rcxdude 9mo ago
mostly unchanged (or rather, unchanged most of the time). Mutations still happen and are necessary for evolution.