5 ms·

I think "Just… start with the interesting part first" is quite different, and actually much better advice than "make me care". I'm more than done with stupid ho

I think "Just… start with the interesting part first" is quite different, and actually much better advice than "make me care". I'm more than done with stupid hooks and attention grabbing techniques, just plainly and honestly state at the outset what the point is of what will follow.

marginalia_nu 9mo ago
Yeah, there are two basic schools. 1. Broadcast what the article is about to let the interested readers find it easier 2. Trick people into reading as much of the article as possible through any means The first makes sense if you want readers. The second makes sense if you're counting page impressions.
- sothatsit 9mo ago
  This is fairly uncharitable. The goal is not to trick people into reading, it is to motivate them as to why they should read. It is more about highlighting the most interesting part of your article to tell people why they should spend the time. You still have to deliver on your promises. I feel like Gwern’s example is quite illustrative of this point. Just framing the content differently makes you more motivated to jump into it, even if you’re reading about the same content as before.
  - bondarchuk 9mo ago
    I don't know. It's almost universally assumed to be true that "making someone want to read on" is inherently good but IMO it's not. Why is it good to be "more motivated to jump into it"? If a plain description and some context does not motivate you, it would be better to spend your time elsewhere.
    - sothatsit 9mo ago
      I prefer reading interesting stories to textbooks. It's that simple. If all you want to read is textbook entries, then you are an outlier.
NegativeK 9mo ago
I now try to follow something like bottom line up front (BLUF) when I'm trying to quickly communicate something and respect someone's time: the most important, actionable detail first with details expanding as you read more. I first heard that it has a standard in an email from someone ex-military; they started the email with "BLUF: blah blah blah". Turns out the military had (has?) it as a standard for emails. Go figure. Before then, I remember someone asking Adam Ragusea (Youtube cooking channel) why he gives away the point of the video at the very beginning. Ragusea explained that he was previously a journalism professor, and he refused to bury the lede. I don't watch cooking content anymore, but I've remained impressed that he was able to have a Youtube career while avoiding that manipulate-the-audience behavior to drive stats.
- bondarchuk 9mo ago
  So basically TL;DR :)

marginalia_nu 9mo ago

Yeah, there are two basic schools. 1. Broadcast what the article is about to let the interested readers find it easier 2. Trick people into reading as much of the article as possible through any means The first makes sense if you want readers. The second makes sense if you're counting page impressions.

sothatsit 9mo ago
This is fairly uncharitable. The goal is not to trick people into reading, it is to motivate them as to why they should read. It is more about highlighting the most interesting part of your article to tell people why they should spend the time. You still have to deliver on your promises. I feel like Gwern’s example is quite illustrative of this point. Just framing the content differently makes you more motivated to jump into it, even if you’re reading about the same content as before.
- bondarchuk 9mo ago
  I don't know. It's almost universally assumed to be true that "making someone want to read on" is inherently good but IMO it's not. Why is it good to be "more motivated to jump into it"? If a plain description and some context does not motivate you, it would be better to spend your time elsewhere.
  - sothatsit 9mo ago
    I prefer reading interesting stories to textbooks. It's that simple. If all you want to read is textbook entries, then you are an outlier.

NegativeK 9mo ago

I now try to follow something like bottom line up front (BLUF) when I'm trying to quickly communicate something and respect someone's time: the most important, actionable detail first with details expanding as you read more. I first heard that it has a standard in an email from someone ex-military; they started the email with "BLUF: blah blah blah". Turns out the military had (has?) it as a standard for emails. Go figure. Before then, I remember someone asking Adam Ragusea (Youtube cooking channel) why he gives away the point of the video at the very beginning. Ragusea explained that he was previously a journalism professor, and he refused to bury the lede. I don't watch cooking content anymore, but I've remained impressed that he was able to have a Youtube career while avoiding that manipulate-the-audience behavior to drive stats.

bondarchuk 9mo ago
So basically TL;DR :)