3 ms·

Labeling people as villains used to be effective deterrence against doing villainous things. When did that change?

by direwolf20 10mo ago

jrjeksjd8d 10mo ago
Ah yes, the mythical past when nobody did bad things because we punished them correctly.
- WalterBright 10mo ago
  The crime rate does change dramatically over time. For example, the homicide rate during the pandemic was about double what it is today.
  - fn-mote 10mo ago
    Sure, but are you implying that is because of our stricter enforcement of the laws? Or other systemic / environmental causes (eg systemic poor mental health)? I am unfamiliar with the reasons to which the varying murder rate is ascribed. If I had to guess, I would guess economics is #1.
tikhonj 10mo ago
It's also pretty clearly a deterrence against people admitting and fixing their own mistakes, both individually and as institutions. Which is exactly what we're seeing here...
- jason_oster 10mo ago
  Correlation is not causation.
- direwolf20 10mo ago
  You wouldn't be a villain from doing one bad thing, but a pattern.
WalterBright 10mo ago
When we began blaming society instead. I've read multiple times that a large percentage of the crime comes from a small group of people. Jail them, and the overall crime rate drops by that percentage.
- direwolf20 10mo ago
  Which group is that?
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
  - WalterBright 10mo ago
    The group of people who have long arrest records.
    - direwolf20 10mo ago
      So when someone is arrested, that makes them more likely to do crime in the future, so they should be preemptively jailed even if they didn't do a crime this time?
      - WalterBright 10mo ago
        > that makes them more likely to do crime in the future Yes. One's past behavior is a strong predictor of future behavior. > so they should be preemptively jailed even if they didn't do a crime this time? No, it means that each successive conviction should result in a longer prison sentence.
        mrguyorama 10mo ago
        Three strikes laws ended crime right?
        9mo ago
nathan_compton 10mo ago
Was it ever, though? This is an easy thing to say, but how would we demonstrate that it worked?

Labeling people as villains used to be effective deterrence against doing villainous things. When did that change?

jrjeksjd8d 10mo ago

Ah yes, the mythical past when nobody did bad things because we punished them correctly.

WalterBright 10mo ago
The crime rate does change dramatically over time. For example, the homicide rate during the pandemic was about double what it is today.
- fn-mote 10mo ago
  Sure, but are you implying that is because of our stricter enforcement of the laws? Or other systemic / environmental causes (eg systemic poor mental health)? I am unfamiliar with the reasons to which the varying murder rate is ascribed. If I had to guess, I would guess economics is #1.

tikhonj 10mo ago

It's also pretty clearly a deterrence against people admitting and fixing their own mistakes, both individually and as institutions. Which is exactly what we're seeing here...

jason_oster 10mo ago
Correlation is not causation.
direwolf20 10mo ago
You wouldn't be a villain from doing one bad thing, but a pattern.

WalterBright 10mo ago

When we began blaming society instead. I've read multiple times that a large percentage of the crime comes from a small group of people. Jail them, and the overall crime rate drops by that percentage.

direwolf20 10mo ago
Which group is that?
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- WalterBright 10mo ago
  The group of people who have long arrest records.
  - direwolf20 10mo ago
    So when someone is arrested, that makes them more likely to do crime in the future, so they should be preemptively jailed even if they didn't do a crime this time?
    - WalterBright 10mo ago
      > that makes them more likely to do crime in the future Yes. One's past behavior is a strong predictor of future behavior. > so they should be preemptively jailed even if they didn't do a crime this time? No, it means that each successive conviction should result in a longer prison sentence.
      - mrguyorama 10mo ago
        Three strikes laws ended crime right?
        9mo ago

nathan_compton 10mo ago

Was it ever, though? This is an easy thing to say, but how would we demonstrate that it worked?