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> because things like Safari ...work really well Are we living in the same universe? We manage a fleet of tablets (both Apple and Android) for a healthcare co

> because things like Safari ...work really well Are we living in the same universe? We manage a fleet of tablets (both Apple and Android) for a healthcare company whose EMR is web-based. And because of that Sarafi has made our lives miserable. So much so that we're migrating to Chromebooks. I've been developing for the web for 15 years. The first half was spent battling Internet Explorer. Now it's Safari.

clickety_clack 9mo ago
I’m a developer too, but the developer experience doesn’t matter to users. As a user of the app, it’s fast enough, cleanly designed, seems to be reasonably private and secure, and I haven’t hit any website with it where I’ve had to download chrome to view it or something.
- mexicocitinluez 9mo ago
  You're a developer but you can't connect the dots between features being hard to build and the inconsistencies between other browsers vs Safari to how that might effect the user?
  - clickety_clack 9mo ago
    I can be a user separate from being a developer. The user experience of Safari is basically perfect for a browser. The development experience is completely irrelevant from that perspective.
    - mexicocitinluez 9mo ago
      > The user experience of Safari is basically perfect for a browser. This is such a wild, absolute statement it's not even worth discussing this with you anymore.
      - clickety_clack 9mo ago
        I mean… what do you want me to do, list problems I don’t have with it? As a user of the app, Safari fades completely into the background for me, I don’t know what else I could ask for from a browser.
acdha 9mo ago
There are some proprietary Chrome APIs but if you’re not using those it’s been pretty rare to have major problems in recent years. I open a couple of bug reports a year against Chrome, Firefox, and Safari—mostly accessibility related—but most of the time it’s been a problem with code written specifically against Chrome rather than code which couldn’t work in the other browsers.
shuckles 9mo ago
The people complaining about Safari often are running enterprise crapware that requires some esoteric Chrome API or bug to operate correctly and should actually be an app on iOS but cannot be funded as such because its creators don’t care about its users.
- mexicocitinluez 9mo ago
  > some esoteric Chrome API or bug Or simple things like supporting 100vh consistently. Is that estoric?
- jorvi 9mo ago
  Well, formerly you would have been right, but WebUSB and whatnot are gaining a lot more traction. I didn't take WebUSB seriously until I steered someone to flashing a small firmware onto something and they could do it straight from the browser! And it was a nice workflow too, just a few button and a permission click. Two other examples I can think of are flashing Via (keyboard) firmware and Poweramp using WebADB via WebUSB to make gaining certain permissions very easy for the layman. I imagine it's gonna get more and more user in enterprise too. Firefox is seriously behind by refusing to implement it.
  - dns_snek 9mo ago
    WebUSB is a giant gaping hole in the browser sandbox. Innocent use cases are really nice, I've used WebUSB to flash GrapheneOS on my device, but the possibilities for users to shoot themselves in the foot with nefarious website are almost endless. Consider the fact that Chromium has to specifically blacklist Yubikey and other known WebAuthn vendor IDs, otherwise any website could talk to your Yubikey pretending to be a browser and bypass your 2FA on third party domains. I'm conflicted on WebUSB because it's convenient but on the balance I think it's too dangerous to expose to the general public. I don't know how it could be made safer without sacrificing its utility and convenience.
    - cindyllm 9mo ago
      [dead]

clickety_clack 9mo ago

I’m a developer too, but the developer experience doesn’t matter to users. As a user of the app, it’s fast enough, cleanly designed, seems to be reasonably private and secure, and I haven’t hit any website with it where I’ve had to download chrome to view it or something.

mexicocitinluez 9mo ago
You're a developer but you can't connect the dots between features being hard to build and the inconsistencies between other browsers vs Safari to how that might effect the user?
- clickety_clack 9mo ago
  I can be a user separate from being a developer. The user experience of Safari is basically perfect for a browser. The development experience is completely irrelevant from that perspective.
  - mexicocitinluez 9mo ago
    > The user experience of Safari is basically perfect for a browser. This is such a wild, absolute statement it's not even worth discussing this with you anymore.
    - clickety_clack 9mo ago
      I mean… what do you want me to do, list problems I don’t have with it? As a user of the app, Safari fades completely into the background for me, I don’t know what else I could ask for from a browser.

acdha 9mo ago

There are some proprietary Chrome APIs but if you’re not using those it’s been pretty rare to have major problems in recent years. I open a couple of bug reports a year against Chrome, Firefox, and Safari—mostly accessibility related—but most of the time it’s been a problem with code written specifically against Chrome rather than code which couldn’t work in the other browsers.

shuckles 9mo ago

The people complaining about Safari often are running enterprise crapware that requires some esoteric Chrome API or bug to operate correctly and should actually be an app on iOS but cannot be funded as such because its creators don’t care about its users.

mexicocitinluez 9mo ago
> some esoteric Chrome API or bug Or simple things like supporting 100vh consistently. Is that estoric?
jorvi 9mo ago
Well, formerly you would have been right, but WebUSB and whatnot are gaining a lot more traction. I didn't take WebUSB seriously until I steered someone to flashing a small firmware onto something and they could do it straight from the browser! And it was a nice workflow too, just a few button and a permission click. Two other examples I can think of are flashing Via (keyboard) firmware and Poweramp using WebADB via WebUSB to make gaining certain permissions very easy for the layman. I imagine it's gonna get more and more user in enterprise too. Firefox is seriously behind by refusing to implement it.
- dns_snek 9mo ago
  WebUSB is a giant gaping hole in the browser sandbox. Innocent use cases are really nice, I've used WebUSB to flash GrapheneOS on my device, but the possibilities for users to shoot themselves in the foot with nefarious website are almost endless. Consider the fact that Chromium has to specifically blacklist Yubikey and other known WebAuthn vendor IDs, otherwise any website could talk to your Yubikey pretending to be a browser and bypass your 2FA on third party domains. I'm conflicted on WebUSB because it's convenient but on the balance I think it's too dangerous to expose to the general public. I don't know how it could be made safer without sacrificing its utility and convenience.
  - cindyllm 9mo ago
    [dead]