4 ms·

In what manner do they extract less data

fc417fc802 9mo ago
Unless you're running Graphene or a similar security minded distro the sandboxing isn't very good. Okay let's be honest it's fairly abysmal at preventing fingerprinting. It could almost be accused of not even bothering to try. But one example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43518866 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43518866
- water-data-dude 9mo ago
  The mobile operating system developed by the enormous ad tech company doesn't try to prevent fingerprinting?! :O
- gruez 9mo ago
  >Unless you're running Graphene or a similar security minded distro the sandboxing isn't very good Grapheneos doesn't prevent the installed apps fingerprinting you linked either.
  - fc417fc802 9mo ago
    Color me surprised. But if you run the app using the sandboxing feature that it provides surely it will only be able to see other apps installed within that same sandbox?
    - gruez 9mo ago
      What is "the sandboxing feature" you're talking about? The standard app sandbox built into android allows apps to discover each other for various purposes, and grapheneos doesn't do anything to attempt to plug this.
      - fc417fc802 9mo ago
        Apologies. I was thinking of Android user profiles which are available from mainline and (AFAIK) prevent the linked workaround from revealing any apps not installed in the same profile. So it's an example of an unfixed leak in Android but not (as I had previously implied) something that Graphene corrects. Honestly the state of anti-fingerprinting (app, browser, and otherwise) is fairly abysmal but that's hardly limited to android or even mobile as a whole.
        gruez 9mo ago
        >Apologies. I was thinking of Android user profiles which are available from mainline and (AFAIK) prevent the linked workaround from revealing any apps not installed in the same profile. But there's no evidence that stock android leaks apps installed across profiles? The link you provided doesn't discuss profiles at all, and stock android also has private space and work profile just like grapheneos.
        fc417fc802 9mo ago
        ... yes? That's what I said? Feature available in mainline, motivating leak unfixed, graphene doesn't correct.
- Saris 9mo ago
  Even with graphene I don't believe it mitigates much as far as apps collecting data. The idea for more privacy is you run open source apps instead that just don't collect data. AFAIK Graphene is oriented towards strong device security with privacy as more of a side effect.
  - palata 9mo ago
    One thing with the sandboxed Play Services being that Google has fewer permissions on the device, so presumably they can collect less data. Which I believe is GrapheneOS' argument when people praise microG: microG being open source does not fundamentally add privacy: apps using microG will phone to Google's servers (that's the whole point of microG). What microG solves is that it removes the Play Services that are root on your device, and it turns out that sandboxed Play Services do that as well. > The idea for more privacy is you run open source apps instead that just don't collect data. Yep exactly, I just wanted to add about the sandboxed Play Services, because it was not obvious to me at first :)
- palata 9mo ago
  > Unless you're running Graphene or a similar security minded distro the sandboxing isn't very good. Okay let's be honest it's fairly abysmal at preventing fingerprinting. Hmm... the sandboxing is a security feature, it's not there to prevent tracking (not sure what "fingerprinting" includes here). The sandboxing of Android is actually pretty good (a lot better than, say, desktop OSes). There is pretty much nothing you can do against an app requesting e.g. your location data and sending it to their servers. Fundamentally, the whole goal of apps is that they can technically do that. Then you have to choose apps you trust, and it's easier to trust open source apps. What GrapheneOS brings in terms of sandboxing is that the Play Services run sandboxed like normal apps. Whereas on Android, the Play Services run with system permissions.

Unless you're running Graphene or a similar security minded distro the sandboxing isn't very good. Okay let's be honest it's fairly abysmal at preventing fingerprinting. It could almost be accused of not even bothering to try. But one example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43518866 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43518866

water-data-dude 9mo ago
The mobile operating system developed by the enormous ad tech company doesn't try to prevent fingerprinting?! :O
gruez 9mo ago
>Unless you're running Graphene or a similar security minded distro the sandboxing isn't very good Grapheneos doesn't prevent the installed apps fingerprinting you linked either.
- fc417fc802 9mo ago
  Color me surprised. But if you run the app using the sandboxing feature that it provides surely it will only be able to see other apps installed within that same sandbox?
  - gruez 9mo ago
    What is "the sandboxing feature" you're talking about? The standard app sandbox built into android allows apps to discover each other for various purposes, and grapheneos doesn't do anything to attempt to plug this.
    - fc417fc802 9mo ago
      Apologies. I was thinking of Android user profiles which are available from mainline and (AFAIK) prevent the linked workaround from revealing any apps not installed in the same profile. So it's an example of an unfixed leak in Android but not (as I had previously implied) something that Graphene corrects. Honestly the state of anti-fingerprinting (app, browser, and otherwise) is fairly abysmal but that's hardly limited to android or even mobile as a whole.
      - gruez 9mo ago
        >Apologies. I was thinking of Android user profiles which are available from mainline and (AFAIK) prevent the linked workaround from revealing any apps not installed in the same profile. But there's no evidence that stock android leaks apps installed across profiles? The link you provided doesn't discuss profiles at all, and stock android also has private space and work profile just like grapheneos.
        fc417fc802 9mo ago
        ... yes? That's what I said? Feature available in mainline, motivating leak unfixed, graphene doesn't correct.
Saris 9mo ago
Even with graphene I don't believe it mitigates much as far as apps collecting data. The idea for more privacy is you run open source apps instead that just don't collect data. AFAIK Graphene is oriented towards strong device security with privacy as more of a side effect.
- palata 9mo ago
  One thing with the sandboxed Play Services being that Google has fewer permissions on the device, so presumably they can collect less data. Which I believe is GrapheneOS' argument when people praise microG: microG being open source does not fundamentally add privacy: apps using microG will phone to Google's servers (that's the whole point of microG). What microG solves is that it removes the Play Services that are root on your device, and it turns out that sandboxed Play Services do that as well. > The idea for more privacy is you run open source apps instead that just don't collect data. Yep exactly, I just wanted to add about the sandboxed Play Services, because it was not obvious to me at first :)
palata 9mo ago
> Unless you're running Graphene or a similar security minded distro the sandboxing isn't very good. Okay let's be honest it's fairly abysmal at preventing fingerprinting. Hmm... the sandboxing is a security feature, it's not there to prevent tracking (not sure what "fingerprinting" includes here). The sandboxing of Android is actually pretty good (a lot better than, say, desktop OSes). There is pretty much nothing you can do against an app requesting e.g. your location data and sending it to their servers. Fundamentally, the whole goal of apps is that they can technically do that. Then you have to choose apps you trust, and it's easier to trust open source apps. What GrapheneOS brings in terms of sandboxing is that the Play Services run sandboxed like normal apps. Whereas on Android, the Play Services run with system permissions.