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> Apple has had better mobile hardware for years. Well no, Chinese phones are above Apple material-wise (better battery, better cameras, better cooling) and on

> Apple has had better mobile hardware for years. Well no, Chinese phones are above Apple material-wise (better battery, better cameras, better cooling) and on par SoC-wise since last year. That's what makes Google's strategy so baffling. > Apple has better app selection (for most people). It's entirely the same. I have gone back and forth regularly for the past 10 years. Android is completely on par app-wise. Apple has the iMessage lock-in in the US obviously but not in the rest of the world. Apple might have a slight advantage on the pro segment with the iPad but I don't think it has a huge impact on phones. The really baffling thing to me is that while they lock down Android, they pay to put Gemini on iOS. Google has a real competitive advantage with IA and they just gave it to Apple. It's clear to me that they are two companies fighting each other inside Google: the ex-Motorola who wants to be Apple and the service side who wants to be Microsoft. I personally fear that they are making the bed of the regulators who will probably come for Play Protect at some point to open the door for alternative OS providers at least in Europe. But maybe they think it's coming anyway and are strengthening their position and trying to milk what they can in the meantime.

HWR_14 9mo ago
> they pay to put Gemini on iOS. Google has a real competitive advantage with IA and they just gave it to Apple. What Google loses by pushing iOS AI customers to ChatGPT outweighs what they gain by trying to convince people to switch phones for access to Gemini.
manuelabeledo 9mo ago
How are they on par SoC-wise? Last time I checked, Qualcomm was still trying to catch up to Apple.
- StopDisinfo910 9mo ago
  Well, recheck. Both Qualcomm and Mediatek have caught up on the phone SoC market. The Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 5 has a slightly better CPU than the A19 Pro but a slightly worse GPU. Apple has a very slight advantage in watt usage but that's more than offset by the battery gap. Same thing with the Dimensity 9500. The SoC market is now extremely competitive.
  - manuelabeledo 9mo ago
    Beats A19 Pro in Geekbench, at 65% higher power consumption. How is that a win?
    - StopDisinfo910 9mo ago
      One, you are entirely moving the goal post. Nothing was said of winning. The discussion was about catching up and catching up they did. As I said, the market is competitive. Two, because the actual power consumption is not 65% higher - that's peak - and high end Chinese phones have batteries significantly bigger than the iPhone so you still get better screen time between charges in the end.
      - manuelabeledo 9mo ago
        I think it’s fair to say that a SoC should perform better at higher wattages, so my comment is definitely relevant. Regardless, I don’t understand how you can say that I’m moving goalposts when I mention performance per watt, which is absolutely relevant when talking about smartphone SoC performance, and then you bring up battery capacity, which is not.
        StopDisinfo910 9mo ago
        Your initial question was "How are they on par SoC-wise?" They are on par because they now sometimes beat Apple top of the line A-chips on performance be it single core, multicores or GPU and do so within a power budget which allows the phone they ship in to be competitive screen-on time wise. Apple doesn't have a one generation lead anymore which is a huge change compared to only three years ago. You are moving the goalposts because the discussion was always about the gap between Apple and its competitors and you have entirely shifted to peak consumption when it was clear the conclusion would not be the one you want/expect.
        manuelabeledo 9mo ago
        The whole claim that Qualcomm is on par with Apple predicates upon results from benchmarking tools, which stress CPU and GPU and thus induce peak power consumption. If we were to look at more thorough reviews, e.g. Geekerwan, they always include TDP and power consumption, because that gives the necessary context to understand the results. And obviously I’m not denying that Mediatek and Qualcomm have massively improved their designs, but they aren’t on par when we account all the things that matter. Your argument is that, since manufacturers are putting larger batteries in phones, SoC power consumption shouldn’t matter. That is moving the goalpost, because you introduce a variable that should be irrelevant to SoC performance testing to dismiss my observation.
eloisant 9mo ago
Chinese phones have great hardware at great prices, unfortunately they suck at software. So unless you want to spend the time and effort to switch to and work with the quirks of LineageOS or similar, you get an overall worse experience.
- StopDisinfo910 9mo ago
  That hasn't been true for years. Both Oppo and Xiaomi ship with very usable software nowadays, very inspired by Cupertino in the case of Oppo but still ok.
  - ulfw 9mo ago
    Exactly. I am very happy with ColorOS 16. It looks like a prettier version of iOS18 and that's not a bad thing. https://www.oppo.com/en/coloros16/ https://www.oppo.com/en/coloros16/
- ulfw 9mo ago
  ColorOS 16 on my Oppo Find N5 works flawlessly, fast, smooth. I have no idea what you mean

HWR_14 9mo ago

> they pay to put Gemini on iOS. Google has a real competitive advantage with IA and they just gave it to Apple. What Google loses by pushing iOS AI customers to ChatGPT outweighs what they gain by trying to convince people to switch phones for access to Gemini.

manuelabeledo 9mo ago

How are they on par SoC-wise? Last time I checked, Qualcomm was still trying to catch up to Apple.

StopDisinfo910 9mo ago
Well, recheck. Both Qualcomm and Mediatek have caught up on the phone SoC market. The Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 5 has a slightly better CPU than the A19 Pro but a slightly worse GPU. Apple has a very slight advantage in watt usage but that's more than offset by the battery gap. Same thing with the Dimensity 9500. The SoC market is now extremely competitive.
- manuelabeledo 9mo ago
  Beats A19 Pro in Geekbench, at 65% higher power consumption. How is that a win?
  - StopDisinfo910 9mo ago
    One, you are entirely moving the goal post. Nothing was said of winning. The discussion was about catching up and catching up they did. As I said, the market is competitive. Two, because the actual power consumption is not 65% higher - that's peak - and high end Chinese phones have batteries significantly bigger than the iPhone so you still get better screen time between charges in the end.
    - manuelabeledo 9mo ago
      I think it’s fair to say that a SoC should perform better at higher wattages, so my comment is definitely relevant. Regardless, I don’t understand how you can say that I’m moving goalposts when I mention performance per watt, which is absolutely relevant when talking about smartphone SoC performance, and then you bring up battery capacity, which is not.
      - StopDisinfo910 9mo ago
        Your initial question was "How are they on par SoC-wise?" They are on par because they now sometimes beat Apple top of the line A-chips on performance be it single core, multicores or GPU and do so within a power budget which allows the phone they ship in to be competitive screen-on time wise. Apple doesn't have a one generation lead anymore which is a huge change compared to only three years ago. You are moving the goalposts because the discussion was always about the gap between Apple and its competitors and you have entirely shifted to peak consumption when it was clear the conclusion would not be the one you want/expect.
        manuelabeledo 9mo ago
        The whole claim that Qualcomm is on par with Apple predicates upon results from benchmarking tools, which stress CPU and GPU and thus induce peak power consumption. If we were to look at more thorough reviews, e.g. Geekerwan, they always include TDP and power consumption, because that gives the necessary context to understand the results. And obviously I’m not denying that Mediatek and Qualcomm have massively improved their designs, but they aren’t on par when we account all the things that matter. Your argument is that, since manufacturers are putting larger batteries in phones, SoC power consumption shouldn’t matter. That is moving the goalpost, because you introduce a variable that should be irrelevant to SoC performance testing to dismiss my observation.

eloisant 9mo ago

Chinese phones have great hardware at great prices, unfortunately they suck at software. So unless you want to spend the time and effort to switch to and work with the quirks of LineageOS or similar, you get an overall worse experience.

StopDisinfo910 9mo ago
That hasn't been true for years. Both Oppo and Xiaomi ship with very usable software nowadays, very inspired by Cupertino in the case of Oppo but still ok.
- ulfw 9mo ago
  Exactly. I am very happy with ColorOS 16. It looks like a prettier version of iOS18 and that's not a bad thing. https://www.oppo.com/en/coloros16/ https://www.oppo.com/en/coloros16/
ulfw 9mo ago
ColorOS 16 on my Oppo Find N5 works flawlessly, fast, smooth. I have no idea what you mean