3 ms·

The title seems pretty click-bait. If you read the article the argument isn't that vaccines don't work or that not vaccinating may increase disease and deaths.

by YZF 9mo ago

The title seems pretty click-bait. If you read the article the argument isn't that vaccines don't work or that not vaccinating may increase disease and deaths. It's that our personal freedoms should still win. The example the Dr. gives with alcoholism seems quite relevant, many more people have negative health outcomes due to alcohol consumption: "Alcohol is a leading cause of morbidity and mortality, with harms related to both acute and chronic effects of alcohol contributing to about 4.3 million emergency department visits and more than 178,000 deaths in the U.S. each year." https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/health-professionals-communities/core-resource-on-alcohol/medical-complications-common-alcohol-related-concerns https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/health-professionals-communities/c... Should we ban alcohol? While it's true that there are different externalities here (e.g. you're increasing other people's risk by not vaccinating and losing the herd effect) there are also externalities to alcohol consumption (e.g. drunken drivers). The question is where does that line go between freedom and health factors and other externalities. We should be able to have this discussion without political tribalism.

croes 9mo ago
Alcohol is the perfect example because it also endangers others. What about people who can’t get vaccines? The vaccinated help to protect them.
vander_elst 9mo ago
If you kill someone when drunk driving you face more serious consequences than if you weren't drunk. There should be similar consequences here you get a disease you could have vaccinated for? You pay 4 times the amount for the cure.
- YZF 9mo ago
  Should there be similar consequences for the people killed due to wasted health care resources? Or family members affected by an alcoholic? What about smokers and second hand smoke?
  - vander_elst 9mo ago
    At least in certain countries there are high taxes on cigarettes and alcohol probably also to cover such costs
- BLKNSLVR 9mo ago
  You should also pay more for school fees to cover additional insurance when the school gets sued for letting voluntary unvaccinated child attend who infects another child, who couldn't get vaccinated for legitimate medical reasons.
throw0101c 9mo ago
> The title seems pretty click-bait. If you read the article the argument isn't that vaccines don't work or that not vaccinating may increase disease and deaths. It's that our personal freedoms should still win. Freedom is all well and good, but what about responsibility? Are you not (partially) responsible for keeping the community you live in safe? In the US you were born into free and working society because those before you took responsibility to make it so: should you not do the same for the next generation? ((Re-)Introducing disease(s) brings back suffering and subjugation that are imposed on new generation.)

by YZF 9mo ago

croes 9mo ago

Alcohol is the perfect example because it also endangers others. What about people who can’t get vaccines? The vaccinated help to protect them.

vander_elst 9mo ago

If you kill someone when drunk driving you face more serious consequences than if you weren't drunk. There should be similar consequences here you get a disease you could have vaccinated for? You pay 4 times the amount for the cure.

YZF 9mo ago
Should there be similar consequences for the people killed due to wasted health care resources? Or family members affected by an alcoholic? What about smokers and second hand smoke?
- vander_elst 9mo ago
  At least in certain countries there are high taxes on cigarettes and alcohol probably also to cover such costs
BLKNSLVR 9mo ago
You should also pay more for school fees to cover additional insurance when the school gets sued for letting voluntary unvaccinated child attend who infects another child, who couldn't get vaccinated for legitimate medical reasons.

throw0101c 9mo ago

> The title seems pretty click-bait. If you read the article the argument isn't that vaccines don't work or that not vaccinating may increase disease and deaths. It's that our personal freedoms should still win. Freedom is all well and good, but what about responsibility? Are you not (partially) responsible for keeping the community you live in safe? In the US you were born into free and working society because those before you took responsibility to make it so: should you not do the same for the next generation? ((Re-)Introducing disease(s) brings back suffering and subjugation that are imposed on new generation.)