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With the direction we're headed, there's a non-zero chance that some day soon I'll click on over to https://news.ycombinator.com/active https://news.ycombinator

by slg 9mo ago

With the direction we're headed, there's a non-zero chance that some day soon I'll click on over to https://news.ycombinator.com/active https://news.ycombinator.com/active and see "[flagged][dead] US Erupts in Civil War" and I'll click on the comments to see a copied and pasted comment from dang with a link to a dozen other comments explaining why this political story doesn't belong on HN. "Politics" doesn't care about your apolitical spaces. It's coming for everything and you'll have to draw the line somewhere.

dang 9mo ago
People have been making a version of this argument for as long as I've been doing this job. There is always a feeling of this-time-is-different, how-can-you-not urgency. I'm not saying that's wrong, but there's a counterargument. The counterargument is that political flames have a way of consuming everything they touch and that if we had listened to this argument in the past, HN would have ceased to exist years ago. I believe that the bulk of this community favors the counterargument, and that it would be a big mistake to let political passions dominate how the site is operated, since that would be the end of HN qua HN. We think a website that's not overwhelmed by politics and political battle—that clears space for other things that gratify curiosity—has a right to exist. I believe most HN readers agree with that and are grateful that we haven't pulled the plug at moments of pressure. I'm not saying anything radical here - this is the standard way that HN has always operated, and I'm repeating what I've always said: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26253103 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26253103 (Feb 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25785791 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25785791 (Jan 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23380817 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23380817 (June 2020) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20453883 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20453883 (July 2019) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16968668 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16968668 (May 2018) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16581518 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16581518 (March 2018) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16402648 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16402648 (Feb 2018) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15948011 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15948011 (Dec 2017)
- slg 9mo ago
  You seem to be a little sidetracked from my original point so let me reiterate it, "It's coming for everything and you'll have to draw the line somewhere." I understand you can dismiss that with "There is always a feeling of this-time-is-different", but what happens when it's truly different? Have you set a line for yourself of when it will be different or are you the frog telling everyone else that the water's not that hot? Or are you claiming there is no line and even if there is an all out civil war you won’t want any discussion of it on this site?
  - dang 9mo ago
    I don't see any sidetrack. That's the same argument, and I can only repeat the same counterargument. I'm not saying that your argument is wrong—I would have to know the future in order to say that, which I don't. All I can do is give the reasons why the counterargument holds more sway from an HN-admin point of view. (Which, btw, is not some sort of disagreement about the politics of this story or other stories.)
    - slg 9mo ago
      Well then, thanks for explaining why that the hyperbolic example in my first comment was in fact not hyperbolic.
  - belorn 9mo ago
    Asking people where the final line is with a nuclear option is a classic question with no satisfying answer, and the classical answer is that there is no line for when the button will be pressed.
    - slg 9mo ago
      I didn't ask where the line was, I asked if it existed. "The line" is a rhetorical device meant to encourage the reader to consider whether their previously held opinions should be held in perpetuity or whether they need to be reevaluated.
- 9mo ago

by slg 9mo ago

dang 9mo ago

People have been making a version of this argument for as long as I've been doing this job. There is always a feeling of this-time-is-different, how-can-you-not urgency. I'm not saying that's wrong, but there's a counterargument. The counterargument is that political flames have a way of consuming everything they touch and that if we had listened to this argument in the past, HN would have ceased to exist years ago. I believe that the bulk of this community favors the counterargument, and that it would be a big mistake to let political passions dominate how the site is operated, since that would be the end of HN qua HN. We think a website that's not overwhelmed by politics and political battle—that clears space for other things that gratify curiosity—has a right to exist. I believe most HN readers agree with that and are grateful that we haven't pulled the plug at moments of pressure. I'm not saying anything radical here - this is the standard way that HN has always operated, and I'm repeating what I've always said: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26253103 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26253103 (Feb 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25785791 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25785791 (Jan 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23380817 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23380817 (June 2020) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20453883 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20453883 (July 2019) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16968668 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16968668 (May 2018) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16581518 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16581518 (March 2018) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16402648 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16402648 (Feb 2018) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15948011 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15948011 (Dec 2017)

slg 9mo ago
You seem to be a little sidetracked from my original point so let me reiterate it, "It's coming for everything and you'll have to draw the line somewhere." I understand you can dismiss that with "There is always a feeling of this-time-is-different", but what happens when it's truly different? Have you set a line for yourself of when it will be different or are you the frog telling everyone else that the water's not that hot? Or are you claiming there is no line and even if there is an all out civil war you won’t want any discussion of it on this site?
- dang 9mo ago
  I don't see any sidetrack. That's the same argument, and I can only repeat the same counterargument. I'm not saying that your argument is wrong—I would have to know the future in order to say that, which I don't. All I can do is give the reasons why the counterargument holds more sway from an HN-admin point of view. (Which, btw, is not some sort of disagreement about the politics of this story or other stories.)
  - slg 9mo ago
    Well then, thanks for explaining why that the hyperbolic example in my first comment was in fact not hyperbolic.
- belorn 9mo ago
  Asking people where the final line is with a nuclear option is a classic question with no satisfying answer, and the classical answer is that there is no line for when the button will be pressed.
  - slg 9mo ago
    I didn't ask where the line was, I asked if it existed. "The line" is a rhetorical device meant to encourage the reader to consider whether their previously held opinions should be held in perpetuity or whether they need to be reevaluated.
9mo ago