8 ms·

Tesla's First 6 Superchargers Open to Public Today

91 points by MikeCapone 14y ago

ck2 14y ago
I'm really looking forward to buying my first electric car secondhand in a decade. Should be lots of hobbyists rebuilding their own battery packs - pick up a dead car with no range left and make it like new. Many thanks to early adopters!
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  Yep, this is exactly what I'm planning to do. The early adopters will dump their cars to upgrade a lot sooner than they really need to, and it'll be easy to grab one for a really low price at that time.
- ovi256 14y ago
  In that case, hope that a charger standard would emerge fast. It would be useless to buy a car that uses an obsolete charger system, that you can't charge at whatever the future standard would be. Still, maybe there will be adapters to charge cars from a different charger standard. Tesla open-sourced their connector design and specification. Let's hope it's good enough to be reused by other manufacturers so we won't have a connector/charger war.
  - ben1040 14y ago
    It looks like there already is a standard, and the Model S makes use of it (as well as the Leaf, Volt, et al). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772
    - protomyth 14y ago
      Did they standardize the side of the car for the receptacle?
      - zanny 14y ago
        It said it was a North American standard. Fuck can we please get some international power standards for once ever.
        aptwebapps 14y ago
        Quit whining and buy an adaptor. And maybe a transformer.
        sbierwagen 14y ago
        Didn't read the article very closely? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EV_Plug_Alliance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EV_Plug_Alliance
        protomyth 14y ago
        "It said it was a North American standard." A little confused, North America (or the individual countries) doesn't have a standard for side for gas.
        zanny 14y ago
        I meant the connector. Point is that electric cars are pretty much just hitting the market and it would be really silly not to internationally agree on a plug for the thing. Since it takes DC power in anyway, you need to convert it from whatever arbitrary voltage AC power your given country has.
        protomyth 14y ago
        Oh, gotcha... I hope they agree on a side of the car also. ATM / Drive Throughs work well, Gas Stations do not.
    - jnw2 14y ago
      Model S makes use of SAE J1772 only via an adapter, and it's not clear that the average Model S owner is going to make frequent use of J1772. Tesla is recommending that Model S owners either install an RV style 50A 240V outlet in their homes, or else install a charging station that has the Tesla connector that is currently only used on Model S. The Superchargers also do not make use of J1772. If hotels end up installing J1772 and not Tesla charging stations, then perhaps Model S owners will use the J1772 adapters at hotels.
- sliverstorm 14y ago
  Should be lots of hobbyists rebuilding their own battery packs - pick up a dead car with no range left and make it like new. Except, aren't the battery packs a very significant portion of the value of the car? I don't see how you will be able to replace them cheaply enough to come out on top, unless you use inferior battery technology and settle for two-digit range.
  - MartinCron 14y ago
    Two digit range in a dirt-cheap super-fast roadster? Yes, please.
    - sliverstorm 14y ago
      * very low two digit. If you use, for example, a bunch of lead-acid or something like that, you'll see much more than 2-3x reduction in capacity.
      - MartinCron 14y ago
        Even with a 6X reduction in capacity, that gives me a ~40 mile range (assuming the Tesla Roadster's 241 mile range), which is enough to get from from the house to the coffee shop to the office to the cafe and back home.
        sliverstorm 14y ago
        At "only" 6x reduction in capacity, you're still looking at $10,000 of battery if you get a Li-Ion battery. I'm not sure of the costs of a lead-acid, but expect 2x the weight of an equivalent Li-Ion, up to 10x the volume, and much less flexibility in shape. Sure, if you only travel a handful of miles and you don't mind dropping $20k+ on a car with that kind of range, it works. But it isn't a panacea.
  - aptwebapps 14y ago
    In a decade batteries should cost quite a bit less than they do now.
sejje 14y ago
Even their future expansion plans won't allow for cross-country trips.
- brianbreslin 14y ago
  I'd bet a super small subset of their customers will ever take a 4 day drive. They will fly, it would be cheaper.
  - Stefan_H 14y ago
    How would it be cheaper if the refueling stations are free?
    - bicknergseng 14y ago
      Hotels, food, etc. If the goal is the destination rather than the journey, I imagine airlines will be the most efficient form of long distance travel for the forseeable future.
  - jonny_eh 14y ago
    How much will flying cost in the future?
  - refurb 14y ago
    Cheaper? Not sure about that. I've done a couple 3000+ mile drives and the price was pretty comparable to a flight (in terms of fuel). If you have more than one person in the car, it's cheaper than flying. And these are electric cars we are talking about. I would imagine they would beat the cost of flying every time.
    - ImprovedSilence 14y ago
      but you must not forget, time is money.
      - refurb 14y ago
ben1040 14y ago
I love the design of the stations, and how it calls back to that '50s and '60s gas station design that celebrated the promise of the future. Seems really appropriate.
rheide 14y ago
Hm, waiting 30 minutes for half a charge. This doesn't scale at all. If there's a queue of only one car you'll be there for an hour.
- cryptoz 14y ago
  I'm sure it will scale with the number of cars on the road. Right now, there are very, very few Teslas driving around and I bet nobody will encounter such a wait (or if they do, it will be rare). As the build more cars, they will presumably build more stations as well as expanding the existing ones.
  - jnw2 14y ago
    Thanksgiving travel is an interesting question, though. Amtrak certainly finds that there's a huge demand spike at Thanksgiving that just doesn't happen at other times of the year.
- MikeCapone 14y ago
  Indeed, but I'm pretty sure that they're aware of the problem and will scale these up so that queues are very rare. Besides, most people probably won't need a 150 miles charge most of the time. If you're going back home and need just an extra 30 miles to be safe, that won't take long.
  - 001sky 14y ago
    Have you seen the locations? These are for intra-state transit. Not for getting home from work. The locations are really only for making long trips feasible you would otherwise need to rent a "real-car" to take. Like SF to LA or what not (or tahoe, or La to vegas). In that context, it both seems less likely to find a backup at a station (because few tesla owners would not just Fly, be realistic), but a bit more of a hassle (extra 1 hr on a 5 hr drive, etc). You'd also expect to see "full" charges, because of the destinations. TL;DR Its not the local/commuter crowd they are catering too. _____________ Edit: Locations - Only the LA and Fremont are even somewhat near major metros. SF/SValley to Tahoe = 1x (Fremont) SF LA corridor = 3x+1 (harris ranch, tejon ranch, gilroy, LA) LA to Vegas Corridor = 1x (barstow) SF-Tahoe-via Fremont seems the most likely actual drive for the target audience. Its only 1 of 6 locations.
revelation 14y ago
This is a terrible blogspam site citing yet another blogspam site. The new information in here is "open today". I would like to actually see pictures of these stations, or mind you, a video! Not the old rendering.
lelf 14y ago
http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger
protomyth 14y ago
I do wonder how many of these will be put up before a state imposes an electric tax equivalent to the gas tax. That is going to be some fun math with politicians.
sixothree 14y ago
Does anyone have any real pictures of these stations?
- missing_cipher 14y ago
  Here's one: http://green.autoblog.com/2012/09/24/tesla-supercharger-network-offers-free-solar-energy-for-model-s/ http://green.autoblog.com/2012/09/24/tesla-supercharger-netw...
mbell 14y ago
What a confusing name. Did they really need to reuse a term that is already very well defined in the automotive world?
- error54 14y ago
  I fully agree. From the title I had assumed that Tesla had added a new model with a supercharger option.
ujeezy 14y ago
The images embedded in that article aren't zoomable right now. Until they are, here are direct links to the fullsize images: Current supercharger locations: http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2012/10/Tesla-superchargers-oct-19.png http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2012/10/Tesla-supe... Supercharger mockup: http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2012/09/Tesla-Supercharger-003.png http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2012/09/Tesla-Supe... Long-term plan: http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2012/09/Tesla-Supercharger-010.png http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2012/09/Tesla-Supe... Supercharger close-ups: http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2012/09/Tesla-Supercharger-006.png http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2012/09/Tesla-Supe... Charging dashboard: http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2012/09/Tesla-Supercharger-007.png http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2012/09/Tesla-Supe...
- andrewcooke 14y ago
  thanks. is the radius the full range or half the range? i mean - if you want to drive to tahoe, can you get back again? i guess the idea is that you have a charger at your cabin by the lake (or maybe they are villas, i am a little out of my social class here) so you can charge up before you come home?
  - ujeezy 14y ago
    Looks like the radius is half the range. A Tesla Model S gets 300 miles per charge, and the distance from Barstow, CA to Vegas is about 150 miles: http://bit.ly/PGUXSU http://bit.ly/PGUXSU
    - andrewcooke 14y ago
      oh, thanks. that's very nice of them. i really didn't expect that level of honesty.
daimyoyo 14y ago
30 minutes for a half charge, or less than 5 for a full tank(with 4X the range)? The time is going to need to be cut drastically(though I'm not sure how without violating the laws of physics) before this business model will be able to gain any significant traction.
WatchDog 14y ago
So telsa vehicles can drive on water now. Neat.
ainsleyb 14y ago
I'm super surprised that the plans for 2013 don't include a charging station in the Bay Area, seeing as they're headquartered here.
reustle 14y ago
I know they are still a very expensive part of the car, but I look forward to when you can pull up and simply swap out an empty battery for a full one (easily automated).
- turbahn 14y ago
  Better Place (http://www.betterplace.com/ http://www.betterplace.com/) does this with their electric cars. They set up around ~10 "swapping stations" around Israel, and additionally installed charging stations in most malls.

91 points by MikeCapone 14y ago

ck2 14y ago

I'm really looking forward to buying my first electric car secondhand in a decade. Should be lots of hobbyists rebuilding their own battery packs - pick up a dead car with no range left and make it like new. Many thanks to early adopters!

w1ntermute 14y ago
Yep, this is exactly what I'm planning to do. The early adopters will dump their cars to upgrade a lot sooner than they really need to, and it'll be easy to grab one for a really low price at that time.
ovi256 14y ago
In that case, hope that a charger standard would emerge fast. It would be useless to buy a car that uses an obsolete charger system, that you can't charge at whatever the future standard would be. Still, maybe there will be adapters to charge cars from a different charger standard. Tesla open-sourced their connector design and specification. Let's hope it's good enough to be reused by other manufacturers so we won't have a connector/charger war.
- ben1040 14y ago
  It looks like there already is a standard, and the Model S makes use of it (as well as the Leaf, Volt, et al). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772
  - protomyth 14y ago
    Did they standardize the side of the car for the receptacle?
    - zanny 14y ago
      It said it was a North American standard. Fuck can we please get some international power standards for once ever.
      - aptwebapps 14y ago
        Quit whining and buy an adaptor. And maybe a transformer.
      - sbierwagen 14y ago
        Didn't read the article very closely? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EV_Plug_Alliance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EV_Plug_Alliance
      - protomyth 14y ago
        "It said it was a North American standard." A little confused, North America (or the individual countries) doesn't have a standard for side for gas.
        zanny 14y ago
        I meant the connector. Point is that electric cars are pretty much just hitting the market and it would be really silly not to internationally agree on a plug for the thing. Since it takes DC power in anyway, you need to convert it from whatever arbitrary voltage AC power your given country has.
        protomyth 14y ago
        Oh, gotcha... I hope they agree on a side of the car also. ATM / Drive Throughs work well, Gas Stations do not.
  - jnw2 14y ago
    Model S makes use of SAE J1772 only via an adapter, and it's not clear that the average Model S owner is going to make frequent use of J1772. Tesla is recommending that Model S owners either install an RV style 50A 240V outlet in their homes, or else install a charging station that has the Tesla connector that is currently only used on Model S. The Superchargers also do not make use of J1772. If hotels end up installing J1772 and not Tesla charging stations, then perhaps Model S owners will use the J1772 adapters at hotels.
sliverstorm 14y ago
Should be lots of hobbyists rebuilding their own battery packs - pick up a dead car with no range left and make it like new. Except, aren't the battery packs a very significant portion of the value of the car? I don't see how you will be able to replace them cheaply enough to come out on top, unless you use inferior battery technology and settle for two-digit range.
- MartinCron 14y ago
  Two digit range in a dirt-cheap super-fast roadster? Yes, please.
  - sliverstorm 14y ago
    * very low two digit. If you use, for example, a bunch of lead-acid or something like that, you'll see much more than 2-3x reduction in capacity.
    - MartinCron 14y ago
      Even with a 6X reduction in capacity, that gives me a ~40 mile range (assuming the Tesla Roadster's 241 mile range), which is enough to get from from the house to the coffee shop to the office to the cafe and back home.
      - sliverstorm 14y ago
        At "only" 6x reduction in capacity, you're still looking at $10,000 of battery if you get a Li-Ion battery. I'm not sure of the costs of a lead-acid, but expect 2x the weight of an equivalent Li-Ion, up to 10x the volume, and much less flexibility in shape. Sure, if you only travel a handful of miles and you don't mind dropping $20k+ on a car with that kind of range, it works. But it isn't a panacea.
- aptwebapps 14y ago
  In a decade batteries should cost quite a bit less than they do now.

sejje 14y ago

Even their future expansion plans won't allow for cross-country trips.

brianbreslin 14y ago
I'd bet a super small subset of their customers will ever take a 4 day drive. They will fly, it would be cheaper.
- Stefan_H 14y ago
  How would it be cheaper if the refueling stations are free?
  - bicknergseng 14y ago
    Hotels, food, etc. If the goal is the destination rather than the journey, I imagine airlines will be the most efficient form of long distance travel for the forseeable future.
- jonny_eh 14y ago
  How much will flying cost in the future?
- refurb 14y ago
  Cheaper? Not sure about that. I've done a couple 3000+ mile drives and the price was pretty comparable to a flight (in terms of fuel). If you have more than one person in the car, it's cheaper than flying. And these are electric cars we are talking about. I would imagine they would beat the cost of flying every time.
  - ImprovedSilence 14y ago
    but you must not forget, time is money.
    - refurb 14y ago

ben1040 14y ago

I love the design of the stations, and how it calls back to that '50s and '60s gas station design that celebrated the promise of the future. Seems really appropriate.

rheide 14y ago

Hm, waiting 30 minutes for half a charge. This doesn't scale at all. If there's a queue of only one car you'll be there for an hour.

cryptoz 14y ago
I'm sure it will scale with the number of cars on the road. Right now, there are very, very few Teslas driving around and I bet nobody will encounter such a wait (or if they do, it will be rare). As the build more cars, they will presumably build more stations as well as expanding the existing ones.
- jnw2 14y ago
  Thanksgiving travel is an interesting question, though. Amtrak certainly finds that there's a huge demand spike at Thanksgiving that just doesn't happen at other times of the year.
MikeCapone 14y ago
Indeed, but I'm pretty sure that they're aware of the problem and will scale these up so that queues are very rare. Besides, most people probably won't need a 150 miles charge most of the time. If you're going back home and need just an extra 30 miles to be safe, that won't take long.
- 001sky 14y ago
  Have you seen the locations? These are for intra-state transit. Not for getting home from work. The locations are really only for making long trips feasible you would otherwise need to rent a "real-car" to take. Like SF to LA or what not (or tahoe, or La to vegas). In that context, it both seems less likely to find a backup at a station (because few tesla owners would not just Fly, be realistic), but a bit more of a hassle (extra 1 hr on a 5 hr drive, etc). You'd also expect to see "full" charges, because of the destinations. TL;DR Its not the local/commuter crowd they are catering too. _____________ Edit: Locations - Only the LA and Fremont are even somewhat near major metros. SF/SValley to Tahoe = 1x (Fremont) SF LA corridor = 3x+1 (harris ranch, tejon ranch, gilroy, LA) LA to Vegas Corridor = 1x (barstow) SF-Tahoe-via Fremont seems the most likely actual drive for the target audience. Its only 1 of 6 locations.

revelation 14y ago

This is a terrible blogspam site citing yet another blogspam site. The new information in here is "open today". I would like to actually see pictures of these stations, or mind you, a video! Not the old rendering.

lelf 14y ago

http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger

protomyth 14y ago

I do wonder how many of these will be put up before a state imposes an electric tax equivalent to the gas tax. That is going to be some fun math with politicians.

sixothree 14y ago

Does anyone have any real pictures of these stations?

missing_cipher 14y ago
Here's one: http://green.autoblog.com/2012/09/24/tesla-supercharger-network-offers-free-solar-energy-for-model-s/ http://green.autoblog.com/2012/09/24/tesla-supercharger-netw...

mbell 14y ago

What a confusing name. Did they really need to reuse a term that is already very well defined in the automotive world?

error54 14y ago
I fully agree. From the title I had assumed that Tesla had added a new model with a supercharger option.

ujeezy 14y ago

The images embedded in that article aren't zoomable right now. Until they are, here are direct links to the fullsize images: Current supercharger locations: http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2012/10/Tesla-superchargers-oct-19.png http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2012/10/Tesla-supe... Supercharger mockup: http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2012/09/Tesla-Supercharger-003.png http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2012/09/Tesla-Supe... Long-term plan: http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2012/09/Tesla-Supercharger-010.png http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2012/09/Tesla-Supe... Supercharger close-ups: http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2012/09/Tesla-Supercharger-006.png http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2012/09/Tesla-Supe... Charging dashboard: http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2012/09/Tesla-Supercharger-007.png http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2012/09/Tesla-Supe...

andrewcooke 14y ago
thanks. is the radius the full range or half the range? i mean - if you want to drive to tahoe, can you get back again? i guess the idea is that you have a charger at your cabin by the lake (or maybe they are villas, i am a little out of my social class here) so you can charge up before you come home?
- ujeezy 14y ago
  Looks like the radius is half the range. A Tesla Model S gets 300 miles per charge, and the distance from Barstow, CA to Vegas is about 150 miles: http://bit.ly/PGUXSU http://bit.ly/PGUXSU
  - andrewcooke 14y ago
    oh, thanks. that's very nice of them. i really didn't expect that level of honesty.

daimyoyo 14y ago

30 minutes for a half charge, or less than 5 for a full tank(with 4X the range)? The time is going to need to be cut drastically(though I'm not sure how without violating the laws of physics) before this business model will be able to gain any significant traction.

WatchDog 14y ago

So telsa vehicles can drive on water now. Neat.

ainsleyb 14y ago

I'm super surprised that the plans for 2013 don't include a charging station in the Bay Area, seeing as they're headquartered here.

reustle 14y ago

I know they are still a very expensive part of the car, but I look forward to when you can pull up and simply swap out an empty battery for a full one (easily automated).

turbahn 14y ago
Better Place (http://www.betterplace.com/ http://www.betterplace.com/) does this with their electric cars. They set up around ~10 "swapping stations" around Israel, and additionally installed charging stations in most malls.