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Yes, they push the MS account stuff very hard. I've found Windows so actively hostile to the user that I basically only use Linux now. I used to be a windows u

Yes, they push the MS account stuff very hard. I've found Windows so actively hostile to the user that I basically only use Linux now. I used to be a windows user, it has really devolved to the point where it's easier for me to use Linux (though I'm technical). I really feel for the people who aren't technical and are forced to endure the crap that windows pushes on users now.

J_Shelby_J 9mo ago
> actively hostile That’s the real problem MS has. It’s becoming a meme how bad the relationship between the user and windows is. It’s going to cause generational damage to their company just so they can put ads in the start menu.
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
- josephg 9mo ago
  It’s a pity for Apple that they keep making macOS worse with each major update. Modern Apple hardware running snow leopard would be a thing of beauty. At this rate, my next laptop might end up being a framework running Linux.
  - heavyset_go 9mo ago
    Buy a laptop with less problems on Linux if that's your intention.
    - josephg 9mo ago
      What laptops would you recommend? I didn’t realise framework laptops struggled with Linux?
      - IgorPartola 9mo ago
        Lenovo T and X series are excellent and cheap as dirt used. There is also System 76. Or you could get a MacBook and boot Linux on that. Some older ones work well, I hear.
        nandomrumber 9mo ago
        I’ve been using exclusively HP EliteBook, including x360 models, laptops recently (past 5 years) and they’ve all been 100% on Linux.
        josephg 9mo ago
        > Or you could get a MacBook and boot Linux on that. Some older ones work well, I hear. Is linux support on the M1/M2 models as good as linux support on x86 laptops? My understanding was that there's still a fair bit of hardware that isn't fully supported. Like, external displays and Bluetooth.
        oarsinsync 9mo ago
        https://asahilinux.org/fedora/#device-support https://asahilinux.org/fedora/#device-support Or more detailed results at: https://asahilinux.org/docs/platform/feature-support/overview/ https://asahilinux.org/docs/platform/feature-support/overvie...
        vee-kay 9mo ago
        I use an old Lenovo AIO PC to dual boot Linux Mint and Windows 10. It works well from a hardware and firmware perspective, but I've deliberately avoided Windows 11 as it is crapware. I have done triple booting of MacOS, Linux and Windows on an old Mac Mini, and it was a nightmare to get them working, but worked well once set up. I think well known brands and models of PCs are better for such alternative setups, rather than obscure PCs.
      - backscratches 9mo ago
        Starlabs
      - 9mo ago
  - seemaze 9mo ago
    I switched from Windows to Mac 15 years ago. It was a revelation when the terrible habits of verbally abusing my computer and anxiety saving files every 22 seconds just evaporated. Those old habits have been creeping back lately through all the various *OS 26 updates. I too now have Linux on Framework. Not perfect, but so much better for my wellbeing.
    - eimrine 9mo ago
      The 7 did not behave like that.
  - grayhatter 9mo ago
    Mine already is... it's so nice not to be disrespected every time I turn on my laptop. I recommend it.
  - GaryBluto 9mo ago
    I still use Snow Leopard on a high-spec 2008 Mac Pro for most of my personal projects. Works a charm and is fast as ever.
- b112 9mo ago
  Maoboro cigarettes uaed to be for women, including red tipped filters to hide lipstick marks. Sales waned, so they actually rebranded the cigarette for men, and even succeeded in making it a definition of manliness. Advertising stories like that, make sure M$ execs could care less about damage to their image. Especially when profit leers its head. (at least, I presume?!?)
- to11mtm 9mo ago
  It is sad that we got to here from when the worst problem was a tile start menu (I liked 8.1 and it ran good on fairly trash hardware.)
- gorbachev 9mo ago
  They don't care. All of their money is on AI.
- IgorPartola 9mo ago
  It’s funny because I started with Windows 3.1 and it was actively user hostile then. From 3.1 to XP it was awful. Then it got slightly better with 7, and went downhill from there. Realistically, a major Linux distro is the most user-beneficial thing you can do and today it is easier than ever. If my 12 year old can figure out how to use it productively, so can anyone. Switch today and enjoy.
- tonyedgecombe 9mo ago
  You just have to look at who buys Windows to understand this. It's OEM's and enterprises. Almost nobody buys an individual license. That's why they don't care. As an individual you get what your employer or hardware supplier says, like it or lump it.
RIMR 9mo ago
Linux is so much better than it used to be. You really don't need to be technical. I have been recommending Kubuntu to Windows people. I find it's an easier bet than Linux Mint. You get the stability of Ubuntu, plus the guarantee of a Windows-like environment. Yes, I know, Linux Mint supports Plasma, but I honestly think the "choose your desktop" part of the setup process is more confusing to a newbie than just recommending a distro with the most Windows-like UI and a straightforward installation.
- dummydummy1234 9mo ago
  Eh, not for laptops - I say as someone who switched to Linux from windows in past year. I have spent a decent few days to get long battery life on Linux (fedora), with sleep hibernate + encryption. And I am still thinking that the Linux scheduler is not correctly using Intel's pcore/ecore on 13th gen correctly.
  - LtWorf 9mo ago
    The hybernate works like shit thanks to microsoft asking manufacturers to remove deep sleep. Yay!
  - godelski 9mo ago
    If you have an Nvidia GPU you're generally going to need to edit the systemd services and change some kernel settings. This is a real pain point to be honest and it should be easier than it is (usually not too bad tbh) If you want I can try to help you debug it. I don't have a fedora system but I can spin up a VM or nspawn to try to match your environment if you want
  - pimeys 9mo ago
    I just got a lunar lake laptop and in CachyOS you can just enable either scx_lavd or scx_bpfland from the kernel settings. I use them both: bpfland guarantees that the active application runs smoothly even if you compile code in the background, and lavd focuses on energy saving a bit more. They both understand how to use the P and E cores: especially the lavd scheduler puts the active app to a P core and all the background apps to the E cores.

J_Shelby_J 9mo ago

> actively hostile That’s the real problem MS has. It’s becoming a meme how bad the relationship between the user and windows is. It’s going to cause generational damage to their company just so they can put ads in the start menu.

deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
josephg 9mo ago
It’s a pity for Apple that they keep making macOS worse with each major update. Modern Apple hardware running snow leopard would be a thing of beauty. At this rate, my next laptop might end up being a framework running Linux.
- heavyset_go 9mo ago
  Buy a laptop with less problems on Linux if that's your intention.
  - josephg 9mo ago
    What laptops would you recommend? I didn’t realise framework laptops struggled with Linux?
    - IgorPartola 9mo ago
      Lenovo T and X series are excellent and cheap as dirt used. There is also System 76. Or you could get a MacBook and boot Linux on that. Some older ones work well, I hear.
      - nandomrumber 9mo ago
        I’ve been using exclusively HP EliteBook, including x360 models, laptops recently (past 5 years) and they’ve all been 100% on Linux.
      - josephg 9mo ago
        > Or you could get a MacBook and boot Linux on that. Some older ones work well, I hear. Is linux support on the M1/M2 models as good as linux support on x86 laptops? My understanding was that there's still a fair bit of hardware that isn't fully supported. Like, external displays and Bluetooth.
        oarsinsync 9mo ago
        https://asahilinux.org/fedora/#device-support https://asahilinux.org/fedora/#device-support Or more detailed results at: https://asahilinux.org/docs/platform/feature-support/overview/ https://asahilinux.org/docs/platform/feature-support/overvie...
      - vee-kay 9mo ago
        I use an old Lenovo AIO PC to dual boot Linux Mint and Windows 10. It works well from a hardware and firmware perspective, but I've deliberately avoided Windows 11 as it is crapware. I have done triple booting of MacOS, Linux and Windows on an old Mac Mini, and it was a nightmare to get them working, but worked well once set up. I think well known brands and models of PCs are better for such alternative setups, rather than obscure PCs.
    - backscratches 9mo ago
      Starlabs
    - 9mo ago
- seemaze 9mo ago
  I switched from Windows to Mac 15 years ago. It was a revelation when the terrible habits of verbally abusing my computer and anxiety saving files every 22 seconds just evaporated. Those old habits have been creeping back lately through all the various *OS 26 updates. I too now have Linux on Framework. Not perfect, but so much better for my wellbeing.
  - eimrine 9mo ago
    The 7 did not behave like that.
- grayhatter 9mo ago
  Mine already is... it's so nice not to be disrespected every time I turn on my laptop. I recommend it.
- GaryBluto 9mo ago
  I still use Snow Leopard on a high-spec 2008 Mac Pro for most of my personal projects. Works a charm and is fast as ever.
b112 9mo ago
Maoboro cigarettes uaed to be for women, including red tipped filters to hide lipstick marks. Sales waned, so they actually rebranded the cigarette for men, and even succeeded in making it a definition of manliness. Advertising stories like that, make sure M$ execs could care less about damage to their image. Especially when profit leers its head. (at least, I presume?!?)
to11mtm 9mo ago
It is sad that we got to here from when the worst problem was a tile start menu (I liked 8.1 and it ran good on fairly trash hardware.)
gorbachev 9mo ago
They don't care. All of their money is on AI.
IgorPartola 9mo ago
It’s funny because I started with Windows 3.1 and it was actively user hostile then. From 3.1 to XP it was awful. Then it got slightly better with 7, and went downhill from there. Realistically, a major Linux distro is the most user-beneficial thing you can do and today it is easier than ever. If my 12 year old can figure out how to use it productively, so can anyone. Switch today and enjoy.
tonyedgecombe 9mo ago
You just have to look at who buys Windows to understand this. It's OEM's and enterprises. Almost nobody buys an individual license. That's why they don't care. As an individual you get what your employer or hardware supplier says, like it or lump it.

RIMR 9mo ago

Linux is so much better than it used to be. You really don't need to be technical. I have been recommending Kubuntu to Windows people. I find it's an easier bet than Linux Mint. You get the stability of Ubuntu, plus the guarantee of a Windows-like environment. Yes, I know, Linux Mint supports Plasma, but I honestly think the "choose your desktop" part of the setup process is more confusing to a newbie than just recommending a distro with the most Windows-like UI and a straightforward installation.

dummydummy1234 9mo ago
Eh, not for laptops - I say as someone who switched to Linux from windows in past year. I have spent a decent few days to get long battery life on Linux (fedora), with sleep hibernate + encryption. And I am still thinking that the Linux scheduler is not correctly using Intel's pcore/ecore on 13th gen correctly.
- LtWorf 9mo ago
  The hybernate works like shit thanks to microsoft asking manufacturers to remove deep sleep. Yay!
- godelski 9mo ago
  If you have an Nvidia GPU you're generally going to need to edit the systemd services and change some kernel settings. This is a real pain point to be honest and it should be easier than it is (usually not too bad tbh) If you want I can try to help you debug it. I don't have a fedora system but I can spin up a VM or nspawn to try to match your environment if you want
- pimeys 9mo ago
  I just got a lunar lake laptop and in CachyOS you can just enable either scx_lavd or scx_bpfland from the kernel settings. I use them both: bpfland guarantees that the active application runs smoothly even if you compile code in the background, and lavd focuses on energy saving a bit more. They both understand how to use the P and E cores: especially the lavd scheduler puts the active app to a P core and all the background apps to the E cores.