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This sounds like almost every other product I buy, except it's designed to eventually save a lot of lives? Imagine being mad that a kitchen knife has no liabili

This sounds like almost every other product I buy, except it's designed to eventually save a lot of lives? Imagine being mad that a kitchen knife has no liability for what you do with it, or a motorcycle.

FireBeyond 9mo ago
Imagine if professional medical equipment designed to save lives had no liability clauses? Except they do. Which is why there's FDA certification and regulation and the Lifepak 15s I used as a paramedic cost around $40,000. Mercedes was also willing to put their money where their mouth was and accept liability for vehicle software issues. (Cue here the Tesla stans talking about "how limited" that was. Almost perhaps as if it was for a good reason and not "if it compiles, ship it").
- ericd 9mo ago
  It sounds like the point you're making is that manufacturers taking liability will make all of this unaffordable for normal people, similar to how medicine has become unaffordable? I don't think that's actually your point, but it sort of sounds like it.
  - FireBeyond 9mo ago
    There are probably elements of that but my read of the post I replied to was "why on earth would you expect manufacturers of equipment to accept liability for misuse?" (I actually agree about misuse, but malfunction is not the same.) And "in the context of something that is designed to save lives"... well, absolutely, many manufacturers do and will and even "have to".
7e 9mo ago
Currently it's more dangerous to use FSD than to not use FSD. They can charge me when it's not a danger to society; I will gladly pay. Most likely I will be paying Waymo.
- scottyah 9mo ago
  It's not though? The data shows less fatal accidents and less accidents overall. Waymo is definitely doing better so far, they have Level 4 autonomy already while Tesla is still on Level 2. https://www.tesla.com/fsd/safety https://www.tesla.com/fsd/safety

FireBeyond 9mo ago

Imagine if professional medical equipment designed to save lives had no liability clauses? Except they do. Which is why there's FDA certification and regulation and the Lifepak 15s I used as a paramedic cost around $40,000. Mercedes was also willing to put their money where their mouth was and accept liability for vehicle software issues. (Cue here the Tesla stans talking about "how limited" that was. Almost perhaps as if it was for a good reason and not "if it compiles, ship it").

ericd 9mo ago
It sounds like the point you're making is that manufacturers taking liability will make all of this unaffordable for normal people, similar to how medicine has become unaffordable? I don't think that's actually your point, but it sort of sounds like it.
- FireBeyond 9mo ago
  There are probably elements of that but my read of the post I replied to was "why on earth would you expect manufacturers of equipment to accept liability for misuse?" (I actually agree about misuse, but malfunction is not the same.) And "in the context of something that is designed to save lives"... well, absolutely, many manufacturers do and will and even "have to".

7e 9mo ago

Currently it's more dangerous to use FSD than to not use FSD. They can charge me when it's not a danger to society; I will gladly pay. Most likely I will be paying Waymo.

scottyah 9mo ago
It's not though? The data shows less fatal accidents and less accidents overall. Waymo is definitely doing better so far, they have Level 4 autonomy already while Tesla is still on Level 2. https://www.tesla.com/fsd/safety https://www.tesla.com/fsd/safety