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> clinical trials Keep in mind that the Western system is not perfect either. Many good natural medicines are ignored by western countries because they have no

> clinical trials Keep in mind that the Western system is not perfect either. Many good natural medicines are ignored by western countries because they have not undergone clinical trials. Why haven't they undergone clinical trials? Because that takes large amounts of money and no one is going to make that investment unless they can patent the molecule. Of course, natural medicines that have been in use for hundreds if not thousands of years are not patentable, so no one will do a clinical trial for them. As a result, when you go to a doctor in a western country they are completely ignorant about natural medicines and will only prescribe drugs pushed by big pharma.

aprilthird2021 9mo ago
> Why haven't they undergone clinical trials? Because that takes large amounts of money and no one is going to make that investment unless they can patent the molecule. The Ramdevs and Patanjalis of the world could easily afford to do this and would boost their sales 100x if they could. They already sell unpatentable remedies and powders with great profit (but decamp to Western hospitals when they are actually sick)
- lateforwork 9mo ago
  We don't have to look at TCM or Ayurveda. Let's consider a simple, well-known, natural molecule: magnesium. Go to Amazon and search for product reviews for magnesium and magnesium l-threonate supplements. You'll see tons of people using magnesium effectively for muscle tightness, and insomnia. Yet doctors never recommend it, and are confused when told that it works for you. Why is this? It is because big pharma is not pushing it. There are no major clinical trials going on for it in order to prove that it is safe and effective for these purposes. Why? Because it is not patentable.
  - Nursie 9mo ago
    This is absolute nonsense. Doctors test for deficiencies in vitamins and minerals and recommend cheap effective supplements to address them and other conditions all the frickin time. My partner is currently taking completely unpatentable iron supplements for a deficiency and I am taking cheap, unpatentable psyllium husk for gut health and cholesterol management, both on the advice of our (Western, evidence-based) doctors. This meme that ‘western’ doctors are only interested in peddling expensive pharmaceuticals and don’t look ‘holistically’ at patient health, or recommend cheap, effective treatments … it’s just not true at all.
    - lateforwork 9mo ago
      It is absolutely true for certain conditions. If you have insomnia and go to a doctor they want to put you on Ambien CR for the rest of your life. There aren't even any reliable tests for magnesium deficiency. Psyllium husk for cholesterol? Never heard a doctor mention that, all they recommend is statins. Your experience is clearly different from mine. The notion that Western doctors recommend natural medicines when possible is extraordinary. If they did, naturopathic doctors will not have jobs.
      - Nursie 9mo ago
        ‘Western’ doctors generally recommend things that work and are proven to work. They don’t always get it right but in general that is at least the driving idea. Psyllium husk is a source of dietary fibre and has been shown to to absorb cholesterol from bile as it passes through the digestive tract, hence it can be recommended as an evidence-based first attempt at reducing levels. Statins are likely to be an escalation from there if it doesn’t help. Magnesium blood tests exist - https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/amp/article/magnesium-blood-test https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/amp/article/magnesium-blood-... Naturopathic ‘doctors’ have jobs because the credulous believe they’re something other than quacks. Naturopathy is a grab bag of unproven, alt-med bullshit and should be regarded as nothing more than charlatanry. Your view of western medicine is nonsense driven by antipathy. Yes, there are problems with money from big Pharma corrupting the system. That doesn’t mean any of the woo-woo alt systems are any more real. They’re all far worse because they don’t even start with an evidence base.
        lateforwork 9mo ago
        > Your view of western medicine is nonsense driven by antipathy. The same could be said about your view of natural and traditional medicine. > ‘Western’ doctors generally recommend things that work and are proven to work. That's true of traditional medicine as well. The difference is how they are proven. Western medicines prove using a double blind study. It is expensive and you can't get funding for such studies unless an investor is assured of returns for their investment, which is only possible for novel, patentable medicines. And that means many natural medicines that work are ignored by the Western system. Traditional medicine on the other hand prove that something works not using double blind studies but 100s years of actual experience. An example is magnesium. Doctors don't know that it works for muscle tightness and insomnia because no one has done a double blind study on it with thousands of patients. And nobody will because magnesium is not patentable. And so they prescribe Ambien CR, a very harmful and addictive drug. It is a very broken system, and you don't seem to want to acknowledge those limitations. (And no, no reliable tests exist for magnesium deficiency but that's a side point.) > Naturopathy is a grab bag of unproven, alt-med bullshit and should be regarded as nothing more than charlatanry. Yeah.. this attitude is the problem. > They’re all far worse because they don’t even start with an evidence base. They do, perhaps not in a way that satisfies you, but they do. The evidence is based on 100s of years of experience.

aprilthird2021 9mo ago

> Why haven't they undergone clinical trials? Because that takes large amounts of money and no one is going to make that investment unless they can patent the molecule. The Ramdevs and Patanjalis of the world could easily afford to do this and would boost their sales 100x if they could. They already sell unpatentable remedies and powders with great profit (but decamp to Western hospitals when they are actually sick)

lateforwork 9mo ago
We don't have to look at TCM or Ayurveda. Let's consider a simple, well-known, natural molecule: magnesium. Go to Amazon and search for product reviews for magnesium and magnesium l-threonate supplements. You'll see tons of people using magnesium effectively for muscle tightness, and insomnia. Yet doctors never recommend it, and are confused when told that it works for you. Why is this? It is because big pharma is not pushing it. There are no major clinical trials going on for it in order to prove that it is safe and effective for these purposes. Why? Because it is not patentable.
- Nursie 9mo ago
  This is absolute nonsense. Doctors test for deficiencies in vitamins and minerals and recommend cheap effective supplements to address them and other conditions all the frickin time. My partner is currently taking completely unpatentable iron supplements for a deficiency and I am taking cheap, unpatentable psyllium husk for gut health and cholesterol management, both on the advice of our (Western, evidence-based) doctors. This meme that ‘western’ doctors are only interested in peddling expensive pharmaceuticals and don’t look ‘holistically’ at patient health, or recommend cheap, effective treatments … it’s just not true at all.
  - lateforwork 9mo ago
    It is absolutely true for certain conditions. If you have insomnia and go to a doctor they want to put you on Ambien CR for the rest of your life. There aren't even any reliable tests for magnesium deficiency. Psyllium husk for cholesterol? Never heard a doctor mention that, all they recommend is statins. Your experience is clearly different from mine. The notion that Western doctors recommend natural medicines when possible is extraordinary. If they did, naturopathic doctors will not have jobs.
    - Nursie 9mo ago
      ‘Western’ doctors generally recommend things that work and are proven to work. They don’t always get it right but in general that is at least the driving idea. Psyllium husk is a source of dietary fibre and has been shown to to absorb cholesterol from bile as it passes through the digestive tract, hence it can be recommended as an evidence-based first attempt at reducing levels. Statins are likely to be an escalation from there if it doesn’t help. Magnesium blood tests exist - https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/amp/article/magnesium-blood-test https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/amp/article/magnesium-blood-... Naturopathic ‘doctors’ have jobs because the credulous believe they’re something other than quacks. Naturopathy is a grab bag of unproven, alt-med bullshit and should be regarded as nothing more than charlatanry. Your view of western medicine is nonsense driven by antipathy. Yes, there are problems with money from big Pharma corrupting the system. That doesn’t mean any of the woo-woo alt systems are any more real. They’re all far worse because they don’t even start with an evidence base.
      - lateforwork 9mo ago
        > Your view of western medicine is nonsense driven by antipathy. The same could be said about your view of natural and traditional medicine. > ‘Western’ doctors generally recommend things that work and are proven to work. That's true of traditional medicine as well. The difference is how they are proven. Western medicines prove using a double blind study. It is expensive and you can't get funding for such studies unless an investor is assured of returns for their investment, which is only possible for novel, patentable medicines. And that means many natural medicines that work are ignored by the Western system. Traditional medicine on the other hand prove that something works not using double blind studies but 100s years of actual experience. An example is magnesium. Doctors don't know that it works for muscle tightness and insomnia because no one has done a double blind study on it with thousands of patients. And nobody will because magnesium is not patentable. And so they prescribe Ambien CR, a very harmful and addictive drug. It is a very broken system, and you don't seem to want to acknowledge those limitations. (And no, no reliable tests exist for magnesium deficiency but that's a side point.) > Naturopathy is a grab bag of unproven, alt-med bullshit and should be regarded as nothing more than charlatanry. Yeah.. this attitude is the problem. > They’re all far worse because they don’t even start with an evidence base. They do, perhaps not in a way that satisfies you, but they do. The evidence is based on 100s of years of experience.