6 ms·

I'm not sure I agree with all of that - that single-purpose tech is making a real comeback. But I do have one example in my daily life that supports this: A G

I'm not sure I agree with all of that - that single-purpose tech is making a real comeback. But I do have one example in my daily life that supports this: A Garmin watch. Unlike "full" smartwatches (arbitrarily defined as: You can browse the web on them in some fashion) Garmin devices are intentionally limited but in return, what they do works very well and seems fully debugged. I spent several years recording outdoor activities with the Strava app on my phone, and always there was about a 1% failure rate where for one reason or another, the GPS trace was interrupted or corrupted. With the Garmin watch this simply doesn't happen. If it's recording, the recording is good, period. It is that, that has somehow been lost. That devices that just do one thing and do it well have been replaced by apps on a device that, in the modern software fashion, are "mostly" debugged, get constant updates that may or may not remove bugs (or features!) and usually don't add anything useful. One app got an update which, on my lower-end phone, changed it from crisply responsive to incredibly slow (5+ second response time to a tap). It worked fine before.

observationist 9mo ago
I've started to realize of late that a vast majority of tech is "making things and services that maximize the amount of money taken out of customer wallets" and not "making cool technology that works". They have just as much pride and put just as much care and craft into squeezing money out of consumers as developers and engineers put into their projects. This creates a market where quality and craftsmanship and customer service reduce competitiveness and eat into profits. We've empowered and optimized a market for the enshittifiers, and they're damn good at what they do.
- xvector 9mo ago
  Tech hiring has shifted dramatically. It used to be people genuinely interested in, and passionate about technology. Top companies used to filter for this as well. Now it's just anyone that wants a big paycheck. And the culture shift is reflected in the products.
  - observationist 9mo ago
    It's shifted because you can outsource and race to the bottom, and abuse H1B and other programs to ensure you suppress US wages, and you fatten up the ranks of middle managers to make people leave every 3-4 years, stagnating wage growth, ensuring you get a constant stream of fresh, energized, underpaid workers, some of which can't complain or advocate for higher wages, and all participate in a culture of competitiveness and bean counting. Nobody builds relationships or sticks around long enough for policies and perks that are used to sell the package in the first place. There are all sorts of dark patterns that are taught to MBAs as "best practice". Throw in McKinsey et al, third party CYA vendors, and you have a rancid stew of bare minimum, low effort, "technically legal" policy and practices designed to screw everyone out of as much money as possible in order to make number go up. Companies that compete in the number go up game end up beating every other company that think they're in the something-as-a-service game, or the best quality product game. We don't have to live like this. We can make them stop with reasonable regulations. That'd require term limits and nuking the dark money PACs and all the other corrupt bullshit, though, so who knows. Maybe we're all screwed, and "getting yours" is the best and only move left.
    - MarkusWandel 9mo ago
      But can you put the AI written code genie back in the bottle? Once that starts dominating app development, things will get even worse.
    - nottorp 9mo ago
      > and abuse H1B and other programs to ensure you suppress US wages Heh. Most HNers that seem to have little moral restraints when it comes to making money in their posts seem to be in the US. Do you even notice how many "solo saas founder" and "faang employee" types defend the right of those large companies that you're complaining about to increase their profits ad infinitum? Or how many consider "free to play" IAP fests as regular honest video games? Hint: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46729368 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46729368 Is that the fault of outsourcing and H1-Bs?
      - 9mo ago
taeric 9mo ago
In this, isn't it more that Garmin has been making sports watches for a long long time? And were given the grace by their customer base to just keep making that particular function better. You could probably find the same with bike computers. Established brands that have a fairly predictable customer base tend to continue to focus on the thing that they do well. If you are having to chase a market that doesn't really exist, you find half baked features that speak to an idea, but often don't actually deliver on it. For an amazing example of that last, look at how Amazon is destroying their echo market. If they just focused on "voice activated radio and timers," the device would be very different from the "we are trying desperately to make a new market for our smart assistant."
bwestergard 9mo ago
Out of curiosity, which Garmin watch model do you have?
- MarkusWandel 9mo ago
  A Fenix 5S+. A lucky garage sale find. I can't btw vouch for "fully debugged" on some of its fancier features. I mean map display? On such a tiny device? I'll just use my phone. But the basic sports stuff is rock solid.
  - dzonga 9mo ago
    fenix 5 - I have one too - within the 6+ years I have had mine - some people have replaced their Apple Watches 2 - 3 times maybe for a light weight version I will go for a gshock
  - izacus 9mo ago
    Map display is incredibly useful for us outdoor people - having a map of a hiking track at hand is much nicer than having to pull out a phone constantly. This holds true also for other sports - e.g. ski layer is nice to orient yourself on ski slopes. (Also Garmin maps actually have sports tracks with better detail than software made for cars like GMaps.)
_DeadFred_ 9mo ago
This is my problem with software now. It doesn't work well enough, and a product's incarnation doesn't have a long enough lifecycle, for it to be worth incorporating into my life. Heck, my big complaint on here for a while was Google managed to break the timer voice functionality on my Pixel, my second most used function after playing music. They broke it long enough and I had enough meals ruined/issues that I moved to something else. My phone is less used for useful things than it was 10 years ago purely because companies have made it not worth using.
iammjm 9mo ago
> fully debugged And here I am each morning having to manually enforce sync multiple times to have my fucking Garmin watch sleep data show up in my iPhone Garmin app. I love this watch (Instinct 2) but it’s far from bug free even in its most fundamental functions like data sync
- MarkusWandel 9mo ago
  Thats the app, not the watch. On my Android phone, I think it's runnig afoul of OS power saving features.
  - iammjm 9mo ago
    That's a known, still unfixed issue with Garmins and iPhones. With "smart" devices, the app IS the device!
- lukeschlather 9mo ago
  I had a phone I liked that was stuck on Android 7 and had increasing sync issues until I got a phone that can run current Android. iPhone should be better with support, but also, Apple is hostile to third-party apps that use Bluetooth, so I'm hesitant to say this is Garmin's fault and not Apple's.
Onavo 9mo ago
The OG smartwatch is better https://repebble.com/ https://repebble.com/
- at1as 9mo ago
  I still have my old pebble (the metal one they made between the original and Pebble Time). The battery has finally died, otherwise I'd still definitely still wear it from time to time
safety1st 9mo ago
The root problem isn't really multi-purpose tech. It's the perennial coercive tendencies of monopolies being multiplied by their modern capability to update software in the blink of an eye. If a company develops a monopoly in virtually any part of your life these days, and if a $1 network connected SoC can be added to their product, they can start abusing their position within a matter of months. The standard playbook is some combination of advertisements, notifications, and subscription charges (sometimes for stuff that used to be free!). None of those things are met with enthusiasm from consumers. But if the consumer has no other choice, it's almost a guarantee that the business will add them eventually. Lock in and abuse. This isn't a new business model, we've just watched it spread from being a Microsoft PC thing in 1990s IT departments to pretty much everywhere now. (Speaking broadly about MSFT's business strategy back then, but they were also literally the first ones to try and shove unwanted Internet ads down your throat by streaming Active Desktop Channels on top of your wallpaper in 1997...!)

observationist 9mo ago

I've started to realize of late that a vast majority of tech is "making things and services that maximize the amount of money taken out of customer wallets" and not "making cool technology that works". They have just as much pride and put just as much care and craft into squeezing money out of consumers as developers and engineers put into their projects. This creates a market where quality and craftsmanship and customer service reduce competitiveness and eat into profits. We've empowered and optimized a market for the enshittifiers, and they're damn good at what they do.

xvector 9mo ago
Tech hiring has shifted dramatically. It used to be people genuinely interested in, and passionate about technology. Top companies used to filter for this as well. Now it's just anyone that wants a big paycheck. And the culture shift is reflected in the products.
- observationist 9mo ago
  It's shifted because you can outsource and race to the bottom, and abuse H1B and other programs to ensure you suppress US wages, and you fatten up the ranks of middle managers to make people leave every 3-4 years, stagnating wage growth, ensuring you get a constant stream of fresh, energized, underpaid workers, some of which can't complain or advocate for higher wages, and all participate in a culture of competitiveness and bean counting. Nobody builds relationships or sticks around long enough for policies and perks that are used to sell the package in the first place. There are all sorts of dark patterns that are taught to MBAs as "best practice". Throw in McKinsey et al, third party CYA vendors, and you have a rancid stew of bare minimum, low effort, "technically legal" policy and practices designed to screw everyone out of as much money as possible in order to make number go up. Companies that compete in the number go up game end up beating every other company that think they're in the something-as-a-service game, or the best quality product game. We don't have to live like this. We can make them stop with reasonable regulations. That'd require term limits and nuking the dark money PACs and all the other corrupt bullshit, though, so who knows. Maybe we're all screwed, and "getting yours" is the best and only move left.
  - MarkusWandel 9mo ago
    But can you put the AI written code genie back in the bottle? Once that starts dominating app development, things will get even worse.
  - nottorp 9mo ago
    > and abuse H1B and other programs to ensure you suppress US wages Heh. Most HNers that seem to have little moral restraints when it comes to making money in their posts seem to be in the US. Do you even notice how many "solo saas founder" and "faang employee" types defend the right of those large companies that you're complaining about to increase their profits ad infinitum? Or how many consider "free to play" IAP fests as regular honest video games? Hint: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46729368 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46729368 Is that the fault of outsourcing and H1-Bs?
    - 9mo ago

taeric 9mo ago

In this, isn't it more that Garmin has been making sports watches for a long long time? And were given the grace by their customer base to just keep making that particular function better. You could probably find the same with bike computers. Established brands that have a fairly predictable customer base tend to continue to focus on the thing that they do well. If you are having to chase a market that doesn't really exist, you find half baked features that speak to an idea, but often don't actually deliver on it. For an amazing example of that last, look at how Amazon is destroying their echo market. If they just focused on "voice activated radio and timers," the device would be very different from the "we are trying desperately to make a new market for our smart assistant."

bwestergard 9mo ago

Out of curiosity, which Garmin watch model do you have?

MarkusWandel 9mo ago
A Fenix 5S+. A lucky garage sale find. I can't btw vouch for "fully debugged" on some of its fancier features. I mean map display? On such a tiny device? I'll just use my phone. But the basic sports stuff is rock solid.
- dzonga 9mo ago
  fenix 5 - I have one too - within the 6+ years I have had mine - some people have replaced their Apple Watches 2 - 3 times maybe for a light weight version I will go for a gshock
- izacus 9mo ago
  Map display is incredibly useful for us outdoor people - having a map of a hiking track at hand is much nicer than having to pull out a phone constantly. This holds true also for other sports - e.g. ski layer is nice to orient yourself on ski slopes. (Also Garmin maps actually have sports tracks with better detail than software made for cars like GMaps.)

_DeadFred_ 9mo ago

This is my problem with software now. It doesn't work well enough, and a product's incarnation doesn't have a long enough lifecycle, for it to be worth incorporating into my life. Heck, my big complaint on here for a while was Google managed to break the timer voice functionality on my Pixel, my second most used function after playing music. They broke it long enough and I had enough meals ruined/issues that I moved to something else. My phone is less used for useful things than it was 10 years ago purely because companies have made it not worth using.

iammjm 9mo ago

> fully debugged And here I am each morning having to manually enforce sync multiple times to have my fucking Garmin watch sleep data show up in my iPhone Garmin app. I love this watch (Instinct 2) but it’s far from bug free even in its most fundamental functions like data sync

MarkusWandel 9mo ago
Thats the app, not the watch. On my Android phone, I think it's runnig afoul of OS power saving features.
- iammjm 9mo ago
  That's a known, still unfixed issue with Garmins and iPhones. With "smart" devices, the app IS the device!
lukeschlather 9mo ago
I had a phone I liked that was stuck on Android 7 and had increasing sync issues until I got a phone that can run current Android. iPhone should be better with support, but also, Apple is hostile to third-party apps that use Bluetooth, so I'm hesitant to say this is Garmin's fault and not Apple's.

Onavo 9mo ago

The OG smartwatch is better https://repebble.com/ https://repebble.com/

at1as 9mo ago
I still have my old pebble (the metal one they made between the original and Pebble Time). The battery has finally died, otherwise I'd still definitely still wear it from time to time

safety1st 9mo ago

The root problem isn't really multi-purpose tech. It's the perennial coercive tendencies of monopolies being multiplied by their modern capability to update software in the blink of an eye. If a company develops a monopoly in virtually any part of your life these days, and if a $1 network connected SoC can be added to their product, they can start abusing their position within a matter of months. The standard playbook is some combination of advertisements, notifications, and subscription charges (sometimes for stuff that used to be free!). None of those things are met with enthusiasm from consumers. But if the consumer has no other choice, it's almost a guarantee that the business will add them eventually. Lock in and abuse. This isn't a new business model, we've just watched it spread from being a Microsoft PC thing in 1990s IT departments to pretty much everywhere now. (Speaking broadly about MSFT's business strategy back then, but they were also literally the first ones to try and shove unwanted Internet ads down your throat by streaming Active Desktop Channels on top of your wallpaper in 1997...!)