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Hungary isn't the only illiberal democracy within the EU - France, Italy, Slovakia, Romania, Poland, Cyprus, Malta, Slovenia, Latvia, Belgium, Lithuania, Croati

Hungary isn't the only illiberal democracy within the EU - France, Italy, Slovakia, Romania, Poland, Cyprus, Malta, Slovenia, Latvia, Belgium, Lithuania, Croatia, and Bulgaria are all either Illiberal/Flawed Democracies or Hybrid Regimes according to the EIU ranking [0]. Now that Babis is back in power with the backing of SPD and AUTO, it will also revert back into an Illiberal/Flawed Democracy. Furthermore, all states on the cusp of EU membership (Albania, Montenegro) are also Illiberal/Flawed Democracies. > largest chunk of GDP and growth still sits firmly in democratic countries The only Full Democracies in the 10 largest GDPs are Germany, Japan, and the UK. Japan under Takaichi Sanae is pro-Trump and Germany is likely to see the AfD break it's cordon sanitare by 2029. [0] - https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/democracy-index-eiu https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/democracy-index-eiu

pydry 10mo ago
The Economist (who runs the EIU) celebrated the Romanian democratic vote being canceled: https://www.economist.com/europe/2025/05/18/maga-misses-the-mark-in-romania https://www.economist.com/europe/2025/05/18/maga-misses-the-... When they refer to liberalism or democratic values they mean neither. These are bywords for western hegemony, which is what they really care about. This is what was under threat when they celebrated Romania's democratic first choice of president being denied.
anon291 10mo ago
Reminder that in the full democracy of the UK , you can be prosecuted for social media posts questioning the governments immigration policy.
- pjc50 10mo ago
  No, you can't. You can be prosecuted for encouraging people to burn down a hotel though.
  - pydry 10mo ago
    There are hundreds of elderly people in prison right now in the UK charged with supporting terrorism because they opposed a racism inspired nazi-style genocide. Greta was among them. 0 have ever threatened or supported any kind of violence against any person ever. Social media posts on this topic are treated the same way as holding up a poster in public.
    - pjc50 10mo ago
      Yeah, the proscription of support for Palestine Action was extremely indefensible. Different goalpost to your original post, though.
    - 1718627440 10mo ago
      Why does that always need to be told like it's an either or thing? Why can't the stance that the Hamas are a terrorist organization, that is ultimately also screwing the local population and that Israel is committing war crimes, be accepted by "internet posters". I would say that is the position, that a lot of governments and people have.
      - pydry 10mo ago
        Not one of those people expressed sympathy for Hamas. They were imprisoned exclusively for protesting racism inspired genocide that mirrors the holocaust. They supported a group that spray painted some planes. That was the extent of the "terrorism". Most of the people who think they deserve to be in prison are racists.
        1718627440 10mo ago
        In my opinion, that's kind of the other side of the coin. For one side, anything that criticizes Hamas is a Genocide sympathizer. For the other side any criticism on Israel is terrorism. Both sides are extreme and problematic.
        pydry 9mo ago
        Some people did (and still do) say "sure, hitler was bad but something had to be done about the jews" thinking that this is somehow a moderate position. Im more of the opinion that you are either anti genocide or you are a racist/racist sympathizer. There isnt a moderate middle ground.
inglor_cz 10mo ago
Don't rely on these magic figures too much. Some of the parameters judged by the EUI are very soft and prone to subjectivism/manipulation. Is Greek government really more functional than Polish/Czech one? My personal experience would say "nope".
- alephnerd 10mo ago
  Functional doesn't mean "more democratic". What matters is institutions, jurisprudence, and norms. And after having dealt with the experience of opening a large foreign office in Czechia, there absolutely is a democratic deficit (sure it's extremely efficient, but we just needed to keep a handful of decisionmakers and "phone a (now deceased) friend" in a non-democratic manner).
  - inglor_cz 10mo ago
    The index you just cited is calculated out of five sub-numbers, one of whom is literally "functional government", and Czechia for some reason gets rather low 6.4 on this, less than Greece. First, this is not my experience, and second, much like you I don't think that this is particularly relevant to the democratic character of the country. I also would like to hear more about the democratic deficit you describe. Most problems around opening anything are caused by bureaucracy, which is obliged to follow norms produced by the lawmakers. Some of these norms are stupid, but that does not mean that they are undemocratic. Voters have the right to be stupid and to elect stupid representatives who produce stupid norms.
    - alephnerd 10mo ago
      > democratic character of the country The core crux of "democratic character" is providing an even playing field as much as possible institutionally, organizationally, and politically. If functioning is subpar or requires "hacks" or misaligned institutions, it undermines democratic character itself. Chest-thumping while ignoring the real degradation of institutions in a large portion of Europe is only going to put you back in the same position as the US. > I also would like to hear more about the democratic deficit you describe I'd rather not given the incumbent in power and how small the Cybersecurity FDI community in Czechia is. Maybe Vsquare, just not you.

pydry 10mo ago

The Economist (who runs the EIU) celebrated the Romanian democratic vote being canceled: https://www.economist.com/europe/2025/05/18/maga-misses-the-mark-in-romania https://www.economist.com/europe/2025/05/18/maga-misses-the-... When they refer to liberalism or democratic values they mean neither. These are bywords for western hegemony, which is what they really care about. This is what was under threat when they celebrated Romania's democratic first choice of president being denied.

anon291 10mo ago

Reminder that in the full democracy of the UK , you can be prosecuted for social media posts questioning the governments immigration policy.

pjc50 10mo ago
No, you can't. You can be prosecuted for encouraging people to burn down a hotel though.
- pydry 10mo ago
  There are hundreds of elderly people in prison right now in the UK charged with supporting terrorism because they opposed a racism inspired nazi-style genocide. Greta was among them. 0 have ever threatened or supported any kind of violence against any person ever. Social media posts on this topic are treated the same way as holding up a poster in public.
  - pjc50 10mo ago
    Yeah, the proscription of support for Palestine Action was extremely indefensible. Different goalpost to your original post, though.
  - 1718627440 10mo ago
    Why does that always need to be told like it's an either or thing? Why can't the stance that the Hamas are a terrorist organization, that is ultimately also screwing the local population and that Israel is committing war crimes, be accepted by "internet posters". I would say that is the position, that a lot of governments and people have.
    - pydry 10mo ago
      Not one of those people expressed sympathy for Hamas. They were imprisoned exclusively for protesting racism inspired genocide that mirrors the holocaust. They supported a group that spray painted some planes. That was the extent of the "terrorism". Most of the people who think they deserve to be in prison are racists.
      - 1718627440 10mo ago
        In my opinion, that's kind of the other side of the coin. For one side, anything that criticizes Hamas is a Genocide sympathizer. For the other side any criticism on Israel is terrorism. Both sides are extreme and problematic.
        pydry 9mo ago
        Some people did (and still do) say "sure, hitler was bad but something had to be done about the jews" thinking that this is somehow a moderate position. Im more of the opinion that you are either anti genocide or you are a racist/racist sympathizer. There isnt a moderate middle ground.

inglor_cz 10mo ago

Don't rely on these magic figures too much. Some of the parameters judged by the EUI are very soft and prone to subjectivism/manipulation. Is Greek government really more functional than Polish/Czech one? My personal experience would say "nope".

alephnerd 10mo ago
Functional doesn't mean "more democratic". What matters is institutions, jurisprudence, and norms. And after having dealt with the experience of opening a large foreign office in Czechia, there absolutely is a democratic deficit (sure it's extremely efficient, but we just needed to keep a handful of decisionmakers and "phone a (now deceased) friend" in a non-democratic manner).
- inglor_cz 10mo ago
  The index you just cited is calculated out of five sub-numbers, one of whom is literally "functional government", and Czechia for some reason gets rather low 6.4 on this, less than Greece. First, this is not my experience, and second, much like you I don't think that this is particularly relevant to the democratic character of the country. I also would like to hear more about the democratic deficit you describe. Most problems around opening anything are caused by bureaucracy, which is obliged to follow norms produced by the lawmakers. Some of these norms are stupid, but that does not mean that they are undemocratic. Voters have the right to be stupid and to elect stupid representatives who produce stupid norms.
  - alephnerd 10mo ago
    > democratic character of the country The core crux of "democratic character" is providing an even playing field as much as possible institutionally, organizationally, and politically. If functioning is subpar or requires "hacks" or misaligned institutions, it undermines democratic character itself. Chest-thumping while ignoring the real degradation of institutions in a large portion of Europe is only going to put you back in the same position as the US. > I also would like to hear more about the democratic deficit you describe I'd rather not given the incumbent in power and how small the Cybersecurity FDI community in Czechia is. Maybe Vsquare, just not you.