5 ms·

Can someone enlighten me about the Pepper API? Could I run a server with it? What would sort of limits does the network connection have? How many requests per s

Can someone enlighten me about the Pepper API? Could I run a server with it? What would sort of limits does the network connection have? How many requests per second could it handle? How many simultaneous connections? What about bandwidth? etc. etc.

majke 14y ago
Pepper is a new Plugin API for browsers proposed by Chrome: https://code.google.com/p/ppapi/ https://code.google.com/p/ppapi/ Plugin API is the magic responsible for Java or Flash in your browser. A plugin once installed on your PC may run in a number of browsers, as all use the same API - currently it is NPAPI. NPAPI (Netscape Plugin API) is very old and Chrome with Pepper wants replace it. Mozilla doesn't like Pepper, so at least for now Pepper is a Chrome-specific thing: https://wiki.mozilla.org/NPAPI:Pepper https://wiki.mozilla.org/NPAPI:Pepper
- Tomdarkness 14y ago
  Do you know why Mozilla does not seem interested in Pepper?
  - ryaf 14y ago
    All I could find. https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/plugin-futures/2010-April/000088.html https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/plugin-futures/2010-April...
  - apetrovic 14y ago
    Both Google and Mozilla wants to obsolete your OS and move general computing in the browser; Google is more pragmatic and sees the need for native code apps on the client side (like games, image processing, etc) so they wants to transform the browser into distribution platform for such apps. Mozilla crew, on the other hand, holds high moral ground and lives in imaginary world where everything can be made with Web technologies, and if something isn't possible right now, we should just wait couple of processor iterations and couple of Web standard iterations. If companies are people, Google would be someone like Linus, and Mozilla would hang with RMS.
  - mccr8 14y ago
    Brendan Eich posted some thoughts on Pepper recently in this comment and many followups: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4632410 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4632410
  - pcwalton 14y ago
    I don't speak for Mozilla, but the position of the non-Google browser vendors in plugin-futures made sense to me: it's simpler to just call the Web APIs from native code. Less code, smaller surface area, fewer APIs for folks to learn.
- mccr8 14y ago
  "Mozilla doesn't like Pepper" is a bit of an unfair characterization. A better description would be "only Google likes Pepper", because as far as I am aware Microsoft, Apple and Opera have not expressed any interest in implementing Pepper either. You just see more about Mozilla's thoughts on Pepper because it is a more open organization.
  - majke 14y ago
    True, and that's why I mentioned only Mozilla - I have no clue what others are saying. Any references to position of Opera, Microsoft and Apple?
    - pcwalton 14y ago
      Here's a comment from Maciej (Apple): http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2057611 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2057611
    - othermaciej 14y ago
      Apple very rarely takes positions on technologies that we don't currently support. Here is a past comment conveying a personal opinion from a WebKit engineer though: https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/plugin-futures/2010-April/000089.html https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/plugin-futures/2010-April...
    - vetinari 14y ago
      Microsoft never used NSAPI (API that Mozilla, Apple and Opera use) either. They always used ActiveX. After all, the 'N' in 'NSAPI' means 'Netscape'.
      - ephemient 14y ago
        Not true. Internet Explorer used to work with both NSAPI and ActiveX plugins, until they pulled support for the former. """Netscape-style plug-ins are supported in Internet Explorer 5.5 Service Pack 1 (SP1) and earlier, but are not supported in Internet Explorer 5.5 Service Pack 2 (SP2) and Internet Explorer 6.""" -- http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306790 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306790
- batgaijin 14y ago
  But what are the limits? Are there any? What system API does the implementation map to? Epoll on Linux automatically, kqueue on Mac OS X, and whatever on Windows?
  - zurn 14y ago
    There aren't probably any PNaCl specific aspects to these. This is untrusted code so naturally there will be limits. You could start at http://src.chromium.org/viewvc/chrome/trunk/src/ppapi/api/ http://src.chromium.org/viewvc/chrome/trunk/src/ppapi/api/
wmf 14y ago
NaCl and JavaScript have the same sandbox rules because they're both foreign code. Extensions have access to some APIs that normal code doesn't, but again those APIs are the same between NaCl and JS.

majke 14y ago

Pepper is a new Plugin API for browsers proposed by Chrome: https://code.google.com/p/ppapi/ https://code.google.com/p/ppapi/ Plugin API is the magic responsible for Java or Flash in your browser. A plugin once installed on your PC may run in a number of browsers, as all use the same API - currently it is NPAPI. NPAPI (Netscape Plugin API) is very old and Chrome with Pepper wants replace it. Mozilla doesn't like Pepper, so at least for now Pepper is a Chrome-specific thing: https://wiki.mozilla.org/NPAPI:Pepper https://wiki.mozilla.org/NPAPI:Pepper

Tomdarkness 14y ago
Do you know why Mozilla does not seem interested in Pepper?
- ryaf 14y ago
  All I could find. https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/plugin-futures/2010-April/000088.html https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/plugin-futures/2010-April...
- apetrovic 14y ago
  Both Google and Mozilla wants to obsolete your OS and move general computing in the browser; Google is more pragmatic and sees the need for native code apps on the client side (like games, image processing, etc) so they wants to transform the browser into distribution platform for such apps. Mozilla crew, on the other hand, holds high moral ground and lives in imaginary world where everything can be made with Web technologies, and if something isn't possible right now, we should just wait couple of processor iterations and couple of Web standard iterations. If companies are people, Google would be someone like Linus, and Mozilla would hang with RMS.
- mccr8 14y ago
  Brendan Eich posted some thoughts on Pepper recently in this comment and many followups: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4632410 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4632410
- pcwalton 14y ago
  I don't speak for Mozilla, but the position of the non-Google browser vendors in plugin-futures made sense to me: it's simpler to just call the Web APIs from native code. Less code, smaller surface area, fewer APIs for folks to learn.
mccr8 14y ago
"Mozilla doesn't like Pepper" is a bit of an unfair characterization. A better description would be "only Google likes Pepper", because as far as I am aware Microsoft, Apple and Opera have not expressed any interest in implementing Pepper either. You just see more about Mozilla's thoughts on Pepper because it is a more open organization.
- majke 14y ago
  True, and that's why I mentioned only Mozilla - I have no clue what others are saying. Any references to position of Opera, Microsoft and Apple?
  - pcwalton 14y ago
    Here's a comment from Maciej (Apple): http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2057611 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2057611
  - othermaciej 14y ago
    Apple very rarely takes positions on technologies that we don't currently support. Here is a past comment conveying a personal opinion from a WebKit engineer though: https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/plugin-futures/2010-April/000089.html https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/plugin-futures/2010-April...
  - vetinari 14y ago
    Microsoft never used NSAPI (API that Mozilla, Apple and Opera use) either. They always used ActiveX. After all, the 'N' in 'NSAPI' means 'Netscape'.
    - ephemient 14y ago
      Not true. Internet Explorer used to work with both NSAPI and ActiveX plugins, until they pulled support for the former. """Netscape-style plug-ins are supported in Internet Explorer 5.5 Service Pack 1 (SP1) and earlier, but are not supported in Internet Explorer 5.5 Service Pack 2 (SP2) and Internet Explorer 6.""" -- http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306790 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306790
batgaijin 14y ago
But what are the limits? Are there any? What system API does the implementation map to? Epoll on Linux automatically, kqueue on Mac OS X, and whatever on Windows?
- zurn 14y ago
  There aren't probably any PNaCl specific aspects to these. This is untrusted code so naturally there will be limits. You could start at http://src.chromium.org/viewvc/chrome/trunk/src/ppapi/api/ http://src.chromium.org/viewvc/chrome/trunk/src/ppapi/api/

wmf 14y ago

NaCl and JavaScript have the same sandbox rules because they're both foreign code. Extensions have access to some APIs that normal code doesn't, but again those APIs are the same between NaCl and JS.