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December 12, 2000. The US might have had a president who was knowledgeable about technology and dedicated to solving climate change. Who might have chosen dif

by ethbr1 9mo ago

December 12, 2000. The US might have had a president who was knowledgeable about technology and dedicated to solving climate change. Who might have chosen differently about invading Afghanistan and Iraq. I'm sure Gore would have made mistakes, but it's hard to see a path where he wasn't a better president (for the US and for the world) than W Bush.

myrmidon 9mo ago
Completeley agree. It's such a stark contrast between Bush senior and junior, too-- GWB put the US on such a bad trajectory (middle east interventionism, surveillance state, etc.), altough 9/11 probably deserves a lot of blame for it. I also blame the republicans for turning elections more and more into polarized shit slinging personalized attacks instead of policy based arguments, and I'd argue that this really took off in the Clinton era, and then got really bad under Obama/Trump.
- pstuart 9mo ago
  I think that in the scheme of things GHWB was the most qualified and "best" of their offerings I've seen in my many years.
- boogieknite 9mo ago
  mccain seemed quite respectable and i liked the spirit of his campaign reform efforts. they were probably more strategic than altruistic. on the other hand palin seems like shed fit right in with the clown show conservatives trot out now
pstuart 9mo ago
Yep. He made a mistake in conceding as he could have won that battle: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jan/29/uselections2000.usa https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jan/29/uselections200...
- ethbr1 9mo ago
  Yes and no. It would have been corrosive to democracy to fight too hard. Gore cared more about the country than his own ambition. See: Trump
  - wizzwizz4 9mo ago
    Insisting that the proper process is followed, when that process is known to be good, is fighting the good fight. Sure, the fight would've been corrosive, but I don't think the burden of moral responsibility for such a thing is on the defenders.
    - ethbr1 9mo ago
      If Gore had fought harder and won, Gore would have been president but democratic legitimacy and belief in the voting process would have been damaged (in half the country). If Gore had fought harder and lost, Bush president and same. The public wouldn't have believed / understood voting recount nuances: longer battle in courts = less faith in voting. So it came down to weighing the corrosion of the voting process against goodness of Gore v Bush as president. I don't think in 2000 anyone (including Gore) could have predicted that W's (and Cheney's) choices would be as poor as they were.
stockresearcher 9mo ago
> The US might have had a president who was knowledgeable about technology and dedicated to solving climate change. might have had? Ha, you should read up a bit on Jimmy Carter. > A generation from now this solar heater can either be a curiosity, a museum piece, an example of a road not taken, or it can be just a small part of one of the greatest and most exciting adventures ever undertaken by the American people. That was him when he put solar panels on the roof of the White House, which Ronnie Ray-Gun removed and sent to a museum.
- ethbr1 9mo ago
  It wasn't intended as an exclusionary statement.

by ethbr1 9mo ago

myrmidon 9mo ago

Completeley agree. It's such a stark contrast between Bush senior and junior, too-- GWB put the US on such a bad trajectory (middle east interventionism, surveillance state, etc.), altough 9/11 probably deserves a lot of blame for it. I also blame the republicans for turning elections more and more into polarized shit slinging personalized attacks instead of policy based arguments, and I'd argue that this really took off in the Clinton era, and then got really bad under Obama/Trump.

pstuart 9mo ago
I think that in the scheme of things GHWB was the most qualified and "best" of their offerings I've seen in my many years.
boogieknite 9mo ago
mccain seemed quite respectable and i liked the spirit of his campaign reform efforts. they were probably more strategic than altruistic. on the other hand palin seems like shed fit right in with the clown show conservatives trot out now

pstuart 9mo ago

Yep. He made a mistake in conceding as he could have won that battle: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jan/29/uselections2000.usa https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jan/29/uselections200...

ethbr1 9mo ago
Yes and no. It would have been corrosive to democracy to fight too hard. Gore cared more about the country than his own ambition. See: Trump
- wizzwizz4 9mo ago
  Insisting that the proper process is followed, when that process is known to be good, is fighting the good fight. Sure, the fight would've been corrosive, but I don't think the burden of moral responsibility for such a thing is on the defenders.
  - ethbr1 9mo ago
    If Gore had fought harder and won, Gore would have been president but democratic legitimacy and belief in the voting process would have been damaged (in half the country). If Gore had fought harder and lost, Bush president and same. The public wouldn't have believed / understood voting recount nuances: longer battle in courts = less faith in voting. So it came down to weighing the corrosion of the voting process against goodness of Gore v Bush as president. I don't think in 2000 anyone (including Gore) could have predicted that W's (and Cheney's) choices would be as poor as they were.

stockresearcher 9mo ago

> The US might have had a president who was knowledgeable about technology and dedicated to solving climate change. might have had? Ha, you should read up a bit on Jimmy Carter. > A generation from now this solar heater can either be a curiosity, a museum piece, an example of a road not taken, or it can be just a small part of one of the greatest and most exciting adventures ever undertaken by the American people. That was him when he put solar panels on the roof of the White House, which Ronnie Ray-Gun removed and sent to a museum.

ethbr1 9mo ago
It wasn't intended as an exclusionary statement.