5 ms·

A smartphone that runs Android, launches Debian, and dual-boots Windows 11

17 points by emrekosmaz 8mo ago

emrekosmaz 8mo ago
Hi HN — I’m Emre, founder of Nex Computer (NexDock). After ~14 years working on “phone-as-PC,” we’re announcing NexPhone: a smartphone that runs Android by default, can launch a full Debian Linux environment on demand, and can dual-boot into Windows 11. Write-up with background + rationale: https://nexphone.com/blog/the-tale-of-nexphone-one-phone-every-computer https://nexphone.com/blog/the-tale-of-nexphone-one-phone-eve... Curious what HN thinks about the tradeoffs here: dual-boot vs virtualization, Linux as an app vs full replaceable OS, and what the “killer workflow” is for a phone-as-PC device. Would love to hear use-cases / critiques.
- shams93 8mo ago
  Even if it couldn't do win11 it would be amazing, but also transforming into a work pc setup is ingenious. Then there are the environmental benefits of reducing the footprint of eventual e-waste.
- necovek 8mo ago
  I'd love it to be the other way around: Linux is native, and you can start an Android environment in the userland for the few Android apps I can't avoid :) I don't care about Windows, but it's useful if I want to deal with a Windows only app (a few from the government locally).
  - necovek 8mo ago
    But note that I am unlikely to get one today: with a drawer full of Linux phones (from Motorola A1200, Nokia N900 and N9, Palm Pre+, HP Pre 3, PinePhone, Meizu MX4 shipped with Ubuntu, and Nexus 4 running Ubuntu), I'd really be looking for something that does exactly what I want with enough performance to actually dock to my 8k TV or 4k dual screen setup.
    - fsflover 8mo ago
      Somehow your list misses Librem 5, which is more powerful than others, although not as powerful as the Nexphone will.
      - adrian_b 8mo ago
        It is hard to associate in the same sentence the word "powerful" with a quadruple Cortex-A53 CPU. Cortex-A78 is in a totally different class of "powerful", when compared with Cortex-A53. Cortex-A53 has not been designed as a top performer among Arm CPUs, but only as a low-power core. Even at its launch, in 2012, 14 years ago, Cortex-A53 was much slower than the older big Arm cores, like Cortex-A15 from 2010. I am aware of this from direct experience, because a decade ago I have developed software on several SBCs with Cortex-A53, including Raspberry Pi, and also on an ODROID model with Cortex-A15, which ran circles around them, and unlike them it delivered a passable desktop experience. On the other hand, at its launch in 2020, Cortex-A78 was faster than any older Arm CPU cores. It was then surpassed by the Cortex-X1 launched simultaneously with it, and then by the Apple M1, launched later that year. Even if some enthusiasts have used old Raspberry Pi and similar SBCs with Cortex-A53 as PCs, that was really not wise as they were too slow for a comfortable use and there were faster alternatives with a similar price (after you added the cost of all required peripherals).
      - necovek 8mo ago
        It's more expensive and not sufficiently more powerful: I would also have to pay customs duties to import it into Serbia. The above are actual devices I own or have owned, it's natural I did not get all of them (including like PinePhone Pro).
- necovek 8mo ago
  To separately answer the killer workflow: I'd love to reduce a number of devices, and another one might be an e-ink note taking screen to dock to (yes, I've got a reMarkable Paper Pro and Kindle Scribe). But other than docking to my keyboard, screen(s), external camera/mic and network, phone, laptop and eink with pen is what I care about. I'd also want more built-in, fast storage (2tb) to keep my basic data always with me (photos, documents...).
- zb3 8mo ago
  How does it deal with AVB? Does it have a secure element that works with Android keymint? Does the bootloader implement fastboot? Is it unlockable? What does the partition layout look like? I suppose the actual magic has to happen in the "abl" part and this is where it gets very interesting, but these announcements were extremely light on details..
- DANmode 8mo ago
  1) Is your supply chain plan published anywhere? Always seems to be the weak point making new entrants. 2) Please don’t add too many days to the patch interval of these OS, if any. 3) How will the hardware security rival the Pixel line? Wishing you success!
mystifyingpoi 8mo ago
Could anyone using a lapdock everyday share their experience? How do you use it? Does it make sense to buy a device that requires another device to function?
- necovek 8mo ago
  Like a smartwatch? ;) The point is that you'll have one anyway (your phone), so the other is to make it more powerful. But I can imagine some cases where it is suboptimal (you need a MFA token read off your phone for a web page login?).
nsonha 8mo ago
When I select my country a different text than the default "Reserve NexPhone (Direct Shipping)" appear. And the line "This is a fully refundable reservation deposit" is no longer there.
saurik 8mo ago
If I dual boot into Windows, I take it I am no longer contactable on my phone?
- DANmode 8mo ago
  Windows devices can address cellular modems.
ed_mercer 8mo ago
I’m sad that people are spending time on this when they should be building a Linux phone.
- fsflover 8mo ago
  Linux phones already exist: Librem 5 and Pinephone.
  - adrian_b 8mo ago
    Those have a ridiculously low performance. While this phone still does not have an Armv9-A CPU, but only a quadruple Cortex-A78, that is nonetheless like 4 to 10 times faster than the phones mentioned by you and faster than a light notebook of a decade ago. The other Linux phones are barely competitive with a laptop of 25 years ago and they are not really usable as a personal computer today, unless you like waiting for your computer.
    - fsflover 8mo ago
      Specs do not show the whole pucture: https://puri.sm/posts/the-danger-of-focusing-on-specs/ https://puri.sm/posts/the-danger-of-focusing-on-specs/ Librem 5 is my daily driver btw.
      - adrian_b 8mo ago
        While I partially agree with what it says at your link, about specs depending on the context, I am also well aware about the actual performance of quadruple Cortex-A53 CPUs and how it compares with alternatives, because about a decade ago I have used many single-board computers with various kinds of such CPUs (including Raspberry Pi, but also other very different SoCs). I eventually abandoned them for better alternatives. If you have modest requirements, you can be content with such a CPU, e.g. for reading and editing simple documents or browsing the Internet with scripting disabled. The point is that there is no need to restrain yourself to cope with its limitations, because for more than a decade there have been much better alternatives. Even when your target is a sub-$100 computer, it makes no sense to use any CPU weaker than a quadruple Cortex-A76, like in the many computer models using Rockchip CPUs or in the current Raspberry Pi. While there are much more sources of Cortex-A76 based computers, the number of those offering much faster Cortex-A78 based CPUs using Qualcomm or Mediatek SoCs, including this smartphone, are steadily increasing.

17 points by emrekosmaz 8mo ago

Hi HN — I’m Emre, founder of Nex Computer (NexDock). After ~14 years working on “phone-as-PC,” we’re announcing NexPhone: a smartphone that runs Android by default, can launch a full Debian Linux environment on demand, and can dual-boot into Windows 11. Write-up with background + rationale: https://nexphone.com/blog/the-tale-of-nexphone-one-phone-every-computer https://nexphone.com/blog/the-tale-of-nexphone-one-phone-eve... Curious what HN thinks about the tradeoffs here: dual-boot vs virtualization, Linux as an app vs full replaceable OS, and what the “killer workflow” is for a phone-as-PC device. Would love to hear use-cases / critiques.

shams93 8mo ago
Even if it couldn't do win11 it would be amazing, but also transforming into a work pc setup is ingenious. Then there are the environmental benefits of reducing the footprint of eventual e-waste.
necovek 8mo ago
I'd love it to be the other way around: Linux is native, and you can start an Android environment in the userland for the few Android apps I can't avoid :) I don't care about Windows, but it's useful if I want to deal with a Windows only app (a few from the government locally).
- necovek 8mo ago
  But note that I am unlikely to get one today: with a drawer full of Linux phones (from Motorola A1200, Nokia N900 and N9, Palm Pre+, HP Pre 3, PinePhone, Meizu MX4 shipped with Ubuntu, and Nexus 4 running Ubuntu), I'd really be looking for something that does exactly what I want with enough performance to actually dock to my 8k TV or 4k dual screen setup.
  - fsflover 8mo ago
    Somehow your list misses Librem 5, which is more powerful than others, although not as powerful as the Nexphone will.
    - adrian_b 8mo ago
      It is hard to associate in the same sentence the word "powerful" with a quadruple Cortex-A53 CPU. Cortex-A78 is in a totally different class of "powerful", when compared with Cortex-A53. Cortex-A53 has not been designed as a top performer among Arm CPUs, but only as a low-power core. Even at its launch, in 2012, 14 years ago, Cortex-A53 was much slower than the older big Arm cores, like Cortex-A15 from 2010. I am aware of this from direct experience, because a decade ago I have developed software on several SBCs with Cortex-A53, including Raspberry Pi, and also on an ODROID model with Cortex-A15, which ran circles around them, and unlike them it delivered a passable desktop experience. On the other hand, at its launch in 2020, Cortex-A78 was faster than any older Arm CPU cores. It was then surpassed by the Cortex-X1 launched simultaneously with it, and then by the Apple M1, launched later that year. Even if some enthusiasts have used old Raspberry Pi and similar SBCs with Cortex-A53 as PCs, that was really not wise as they were too slow for a comfortable use and there were faster alternatives with a similar price (after you added the cost of all required peripherals).
    - necovek 8mo ago
      It's more expensive and not sufficiently more powerful: I would also have to pay customs duties to import it into Serbia. The above are actual devices I own or have owned, it's natural I did not get all of them (including like PinePhone Pro).
necovek 8mo ago
To separately answer the killer workflow: I'd love to reduce a number of devices, and another one might be an e-ink note taking screen to dock to (yes, I've got a reMarkable Paper Pro and Kindle Scribe). But other than docking to my keyboard, screen(s), external camera/mic and network, phone, laptop and eink with pen is what I care about. I'd also want more built-in, fast storage (2tb) to keep my basic data always with me (photos, documents...).
zb3 8mo ago
How does it deal with AVB? Does it have a secure element that works with Android keymint? Does the bootloader implement fastboot? Is it unlockable? What does the partition layout look like? I suppose the actual magic has to happen in the "abl" part and this is where it gets very interesting, but these announcements were extremely light on details..
DANmode 8mo ago
1) Is your supply chain plan published anywhere? Always seems to be the weak point making new entrants. 2) Please don’t add too many days to the patch interval of these OS, if any. 3) How will the hardware security rival the Pixel line? Wishing you success!

mystifyingpoi 8mo ago

Could anyone using a lapdock everyday share their experience? How do you use it? Does it make sense to buy a device that requires another device to function?

necovek 8mo ago
Like a smartwatch? ;) The point is that you'll have one anyway (your phone), so the other is to make it more powerful. But I can imagine some cases where it is suboptimal (you need a MFA token read off your phone for a web page login?).

nsonha 8mo ago

When I select my country a different text than the default "Reserve NexPhone (Direct Shipping)" appear. And the line "This is a fully refundable reservation deposit" is no longer there.

saurik 8mo ago

If I dual boot into Windows, I take it I am no longer contactable on my phone?

DANmode 8mo ago
Windows devices can address cellular modems.

ed_mercer 8mo ago

I’m sad that people are spending time on this when they should be building a Linux phone.

fsflover 8mo ago
Linux phones already exist: Librem 5 and Pinephone.
- adrian_b 8mo ago
  Those have a ridiculously low performance. While this phone still does not have an Armv9-A CPU, but only a quadruple Cortex-A78, that is nonetheless like 4 to 10 times faster than the phones mentioned by you and faster than a light notebook of a decade ago. The other Linux phones are barely competitive with a laptop of 25 years ago and they are not really usable as a personal computer today, unless you like waiting for your computer.
  - fsflover 8mo ago
    Specs do not show the whole pucture: https://puri.sm/posts/the-danger-of-focusing-on-specs/ https://puri.sm/posts/the-danger-of-focusing-on-specs/ Librem 5 is my daily driver btw.
    - adrian_b 8mo ago
      While I partially agree with what it says at your link, about specs depending on the context, I am also well aware about the actual performance of quadruple Cortex-A53 CPUs and how it compares with alternatives, because about a decade ago I have used many single-board computers with various kinds of such CPUs (including Raspberry Pi, but also other very different SoCs). I eventually abandoned them for better alternatives. If you have modest requirements, you can be content with such a CPU, e.g. for reading and editing simple documents or browsing the Internet with scripting disabled. The point is that there is no need to restrain yourself to cope with its limitations, because for more than a decade there have been much better alternatives. Even when your target is a sub-$100 computer, it makes no sense to use any CPU weaker than a quadruple Cortex-A76, like in the many computer models using Rockchip CPUs or in the current Raspberry Pi. While there are much more sources of Cortex-A76 based computers, the number of those offering much faster Cortex-A78 based CPUs using Qualcomm or Mediatek SoCs, including this smartphone, are steadily increasing.