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> Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians. It would be worth including control of the people who vote for th

> Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians. It would be worth including control of the people who vote for the politicians by direct investment such as when the oil producing Saudis bought the second largest stake in NewCorps which controls FoxNews controlling the content that influences voters. And, less than ethical control using bots on social media by Russia. A lot of what influences "solar prices in the US" is controlled by foreign oil producing countries like Saudi Arabia and Russia controlling content and media consumed by American voters.

apercu 9mo ago
I agree wholeheartedly, and the technocrats are complicit with the GOP here. It's funny how “free markets” keep producing the most expensive solar prices in the developed world. Don't get me started on Healthcare (I just moved back to the U.S. a couple years ago after 18 years in Canada, what a cluster*ck). Oil and gas buy politicians, foreign oil money buys media influence, and social-media bots keep voters angry at the wrong targets. Saudi capital helps shape the messaging, Russia helps amplify the noise, and Americans get stuck paying more for clean energy while being told it’s patriotic. But hey, Make America Great Again, right?
- sl_convertible 9mo ago
  If even a Democratically-led California is doing this, how can you point fingers at just the GOP? It's endemic to the system, and not restricted to just one party.
  - jaksdfkskf 9mo ago
    [dead]
  - daveguy 9mo ago
    Republicans are always trying to increase and protect oil subsidizes, cheer "drill baby drill", and have social media tools peddling their bs who are funded by foreign influence campaigns. The Democats may not be perfect, but they are much more likely to cut oil subsidies or at least subsidize solar and other renewables to balance. This is especially true as the next generation takes over by primarying the tepid fossils currently in office. Meanwhile, dear leader Dumpty likes to suggest windmills cause cancer because he doesn't like what they look like on the horizon of his golf dumps. Saying this is a "both sides" problem is laughable.
    - vjvjvjvjghv 9mo ago
      Fly over Texas and the California and compare the number of solar and wind installations you see.
      - daveguy 9mo ago
        Yup. 46.8 GW photovoltaic in California and 22.8 GW photovoltaic in Texas. Over twice as much PV in California even though they have higher standards for new construction in general than Texas does.
  - apercu 9mo ago
    I just can’t with “both sides” when one side is increasingly becoming lawless and reckless.
- philistine 9mo ago
  When you can influence the citizens of Rome for dimes on the dollar, why not steer the empire in the direction that benefits you?
- JuniperMesos 9mo ago
  The US doesn't have a free market in either health care or electricity generation. An actual free market in solar power would probably result in more or less what we are seeing with the actual highly regulated market in electricity, namely extremely cheap prices for additonal solar energy in the middle of the day when the sun is shining, higher prices for additonal solar energy in the evening when demand is high and the sun has gone down, and some fixed cost to pay for physical electric grid infrastructure that needs maintenance regardless of whether it is being used at any particular moment. Oil and gas don't buy polticians more than any other industry does, but voters do get particularly angry at politicians when the price they pay for energy suddenly spikes.
vondur 9mo ago
Here in California, they drastically cut back on the price that you get for solar powered electricity from homeowners. It used to be around $0.30/kWh at any time of day and now it's can drop to $0.00-$0.05/kWh during the day when the state is sunny. If you can afford to have a battery installed, the rates are far better as you can either run off the battery when rates are the highest in the evening, or you can export it back to the grid when prices are much higher.
- barney54 9mo ago
  That’s because net metering is a transfer from people who can’t afford solar to the rich people who can. https://energyathaas.wordpress.com/2024/04/22/californias-exploding-rooftop-solar-cost-shift/ https://energyathaas.wordpress.com/2024/04/22/californias-ex...
  - triceratops 9mo ago
    Which is true. But it's a rug pull for people who spent money on their panels expecting an RoI. Were existing installations grandfathered in?
    - throwworhtthrow 9mo ago
      Yes, existing installations get 20 years of grandfathered rates [1]. Which makes it more of a ladder pull than a rug pull... [1] https://www.sce.com/clean-energy-efficiency/solar-generating-your-own-power/billing-incentives/net-energy-metering https://www.sce.com/clean-energy-efficiency/solar-generating...
      - direwolf20 9mo ago
        That's fine. If we have enough X then stop paying people to build more X.
        direwolf20 9mo ago
        Late thought: we continue to reward those who built more X when we needed more X, and that's fine too.
yosefk 9mo ago
The list of the oil producers listed and omitted on a given forum in these contexts is always interesting. On HN it is often SA or Russia, and almost never Qatar or Iran.
epolanski 9mo ago
I'm kinda tired of the argument where we only focus on some bad actors when it comes to online influencing. Our countries absolutely do the same if not more to influence voters both here and in these other countries, especially online.
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
- TheSpiceIsLife 9mo ago
  What could western nations possibly do to propagandise voters in Russia and Saudi Arabia?

apercu 9mo ago

I agree wholeheartedly, and the technocrats are complicit with the GOP here. It's funny how “free markets” keep producing the most expensive solar prices in the developed world. Don't get me started on Healthcare (I just moved back to the U.S. a couple years ago after 18 years in Canada, what a cluster*ck). Oil and gas buy politicians, foreign oil money buys media influence, and social-media bots keep voters angry at the wrong targets. Saudi capital helps shape the messaging, Russia helps amplify the noise, and Americans get stuck paying more for clean energy while being told it’s patriotic. But hey, Make America Great Again, right?

sl_convertible 9mo ago
If even a Democratically-led California is doing this, how can you point fingers at just the GOP? It's endemic to the system, and not restricted to just one party.
- jaksdfkskf 9mo ago
  [dead]
- daveguy 9mo ago
  Republicans are always trying to increase and protect oil subsidizes, cheer "drill baby drill", and have social media tools peddling their bs who are funded by foreign influence campaigns. The Democats may not be perfect, but they are much more likely to cut oil subsidies or at least subsidize solar and other renewables to balance. This is especially true as the next generation takes over by primarying the tepid fossils currently in office. Meanwhile, dear leader Dumpty likes to suggest windmills cause cancer because he doesn't like what they look like on the horizon of his golf dumps. Saying this is a "both sides" problem is laughable.
  - vjvjvjvjghv 9mo ago
    Fly over Texas and the California and compare the number of solar and wind installations you see.
    - daveguy 9mo ago
      Yup. 46.8 GW photovoltaic in California and 22.8 GW photovoltaic in Texas. Over twice as much PV in California even though they have higher standards for new construction in general than Texas does.
- apercu 9mo ago
  I just can’t with “both sides” when one side is increasingly becoming lawless and reckless.
philistine 9mo ago
When you can influence the citizens of Rome for dimes on the dollar, why not steer the empire in the direction that benefits you?
JuniperMesos 9mo ago
The US doesn't have a free market in either health care or electricity generation. An actual free market in solar power would probably result in more or less what we are seeing with the actual highly regulated market in electricity, namely extremely cheap prices for additonal solar energy in the middle of the day when the sun is shining, higher prices for additonal solar energy in the evening when demand is high and the sun has gone down, and some fixed cost to pay for physical electric grid infrastructure that needs maintenance regardless of whether it is being used at any particular moment. Oil and gas don't buy polticians more than any other industry does, but voters do get particularly angry at politicians when the price they pay for energy suddenly spikes.

vondur 9mo ago

Here in California, they drastically cut back on the price that you get for solar powered electricity from homeowners. It used to be around $0.30/kWh at any time of day and now it's can drop to $0.00-$0.05/kWh during the day when the state is sunny. If you can afford to have a battery installed, the rates are far better as you can either run off the battery when rates are the highest in the evening, or you can export it back to the grid when prices are much higher.

barney54 9mo ago
That’s because net metering is a transfer from people who can’t afford solar to the rich people who can. https://energyathaas.wordpress.com/2024/04/22/californias-exploding-rooftop-solar-cost-shift/ https://energyathaas.wordpress.com/2024/04/22/californias-ex...
- triceratops 9mo ago
  Which is true. But it's a rug pull for people who spent money on their panels expecting an RoI. Were existing installations grandfathered in?
  - throwworhtthrow 9mo ago
    Yes, existing installations get 20 years of grandfathered rates [1]. Which makes it more of a ladder pull than a rug pull... [1] https://www.sce.com/clean-energy-efficiency/solar-generating-your-own-power/billing-incentives/net-energy-metering https://www.sce.com/clean-energy-efficiency/solar-generating...
    - direwolf20 9mo ago
      That's fine. If we have enough X then stop paying people to build more X.
      - direwolf20 9mo ago
        Late thought: we continue to reward those who built more X when we needed more X, and that's fine too.

yosefk 9mo ago

The list of the oil producers listed and omitted on a given forum in these contexts is always interesting. On HN it is often SA or Russia, and almost never Qatar or Iran.

epolanski 9mo ago

I'm kinda tired of the argument where we only focus on some bad actors when it comes to online influencing. Our countries absolutely do the same if not more to influence voters both here and in these other countries, especially online.

deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
TheSpiceIsLife 9mo ago
What could western nations possibly do to propagandise voters in Russia and Saudi Arabia?