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Universities are not part of the government, fyi. They take money from the government, but the government's leverage consists of conditions on funding, standard

Universities are not part of the government, fyi. They take money from the government, but the government's leverage consists of conditions on funding, standards for accreditation, and well... laws like this. If the changes you propose were written in law..., I think most people would agree that's a bad thing for many reasons.

barry-cotter 14y ago
A distinction without a difference. I would be stunned to find out that more than 5% of US universities got a minority of their funding from the government , and who pays the piper calls the tune. For my purposes state guaranteed and subsidised student loans count as they wouldn't happen without it and the restrictions placed upon which institutions' students are eligible are another example of government power over universities.
- saraid216 14y ago
  > For my purposes state guaranteed and subsidised student loans count as they wouldn't happen without it and the restrictions placed upon which institutions' students are eligible are another example of government power over universities. "Power" is being used in such a wonderfully nebulous way here. The relevant power under discussion is decisions about infrastructure adoption and teaching methodologies. If you can point me to an instance where the government denied a university of students in order to keep them from adopting distance learning, I'll cede your point.
  - barry-cotter 14y ago
    Nebulous? Sure. To be more explicit; I assume absent extremely syrong evidence that people and institutions rarely follow a pattern of pissing off those upon whom their livelihoods depend. There's a great Upton Sinclair quote to that effect but I'm on my phone. Again, who pays the piper calls the tune. Not saying there's a cabal deciding all this but ideologies need not be explicit to have power. On an unrelated note, I don't expect to change your mind and while I'd be glad if you were to “cede the point” I do not argue with that aim in mind. Expecting to change your interlocutor's mind when you argue on the internet is the mark of a fool. This isn't lesswrong; most commenters aim to win arguments, not mote closely approach the truth. Arguing on the internet is for the rraders, the audience. tokenadult will not be convinced by yummyfajitas that the US education system is excellent but every time he disses it yummyfajitas brings up the same excellent argument and tokenadult refuses to engage with it and makes ad hominem attacks and appeals to authority. To some people this does not seem like someone with the facts on his side.
    - saraid216 14y ago
      > I assume absent extremely syrong evidence that people and institutions rarely follow a pattern of pissing off those upon whom their livelihoods depend. That's not remotely more explicit. > On an unrelated note, I don't expect to change your mind... [snip] So basically, you're using me as a foil. I understand. Fuck you.

barry-cotter 14y ago

A distinction without a difference. I would be stunned to find out that more than 5% of US universities got a minority of their funding from the government , and who pays the piper calls the tune. For my purposes state guaranteed and subsidised student loans count as they wouldn't happen without it and the restrictions placed upon which institutions' students are eligible are another example of government power over universities.

saraid216 14y ago
> For my purposes state guaranteed and subsidised student loans count as they wouldn't happen without it and the restrictions placed upon which institutions' students are eligible are another example of government power over universities. "Power" is being used in such a wonderfully nebulous way here. The relevant power under discussion is decisions about infrastructure adoption and teaching methodologies. If you can point me to an instance where the government denied a university of students in order to keep them from adopting distance learning, I'll cede your point.
- barry-cotter 14y ago
  Nebulous? Sure. To be more explicit; I assume absent extremely syrong evidence that people and institutions rarely follow a pattern of pissing off those upon whom their livelihoods depend. There's a great Upton Sinclair quote to that effect but I'm on my phone. Again, who pays the piper calls the tune. Not saying there's a cabal deciding all this but ideologies need not be explicit to have power. On an unrelated note, I don't expect to change your mind and while I'd be glad if you were to “cede the point” I do not argue with that aim in mind. Expecting to change your interlocutor's mind when you argue on the internet is the mark of a fool. This isn't lesswrong; most commenters aim to win arguments, not mote closely approach the truth. Arguing on the internet is for the rraders, the audience. tokenadult will not be convinced by yummyfajitas that the US education system is excellent but every time he disses it yummyfajitas brings up the same excellent argument and tokenadult refuses to engage with it and makes ad hominem attacks and appeals to authority. To some people this does not seem like someone with the facts on his side.
  - saraid216 14y ago
    > I assume absent extremely syrong evidence that people and institutions rarely follow a pattern of pissing off those upon whom their livelihoods depend. That's not remotely more explicit. > On an unrelated note, I don't expect to change your mind... [snip] So basically, you're using me as a foil. I understand. Fuck you.