5 ms·

States Are Gunning to Ban 3D Printers and CNCs

48 points by WaitWaitWha 9mo ago

SilverElfin 9mo ago
Yep all these states are pushing copies of the same legislation, seeking to ban printers. Allegedly for gun control reasons, but that doesn’t make sense since it is very rare for crimes to be committed using 3d printed guns. Even if they were, the second amendment protects the right to bear arms unconditionally.
- gnosis67 9mo ago
  The perceived problem may have more to do with the mass production of arms, rather than lone incidents.
  - AngryData 9mo ago
    But that same problem has existed since the 60s when machine tools became common and cheap enough for people to put in their garages. Table top CNC machines existed in the 90s and that wasn't some looming threat. To me this is all fearmongering to try and restrict people from making their own stuff instead of buying it all or fixing old stuff.
    - deleted 9mo ago
      [deleted]
  - esseph 9mo ago
    That one guy just needed some plumbing pipe to get Shinzo Abe. This is an overreaction by some, and a chance to exploit by others.
    - deleted 9mo ago
      [deleted]
ehnto 9mo ago
The country is filled with regular guns, legal and illegal, this seems like a really pointless avenue of restriction. It's also already illegal to manufacture weapons without the required licenses, so if someone is okay breaking that law, they would probably be okay making their own 3D printer or CNC machine from the commodity parts they are made from. What next, ban aluminium profile and stepper motors? Let's not forget hex head screws! I hear CNC machines have a lot of wiring, maybe they will ban the element copper. All that to say, this would be both ineffective at changing the problem and extremely frustrating to law abiding citizens. Stifling innovation is one thing, squashing small businesses regular operations would be another outcome. CNC machines have been around for decades, powering small industries that have pumping out bespoke parts for years.
- tsss 9mo ago
  They just like banning stuff. Guns, child porn, whatever is just a pretense to restrict your freedoms. That's what governments, any and all governments, do.
nick238 9mo ago
While "The Liberator" (one of the first 3d printed guns) was interesting as a test of the technology and what it means for the law, I don't know if I'd trust using one to not blow up in my hands. Pretty sure you could assemble a zip gun in a Home Depot (they even sell cartridges for powder-actuated tools) that's less dangerous for you, more dangerous downrange. It is a total mystery how the Washington bill's cited "blocking technology" is supposed to work. If you load a pipe-shaped object into your CAM software, how the hell is it supposed to know if it's an illegal firearm part or just a manifold? Maybe before each time it generates some G-code, you need to submit a signed affidavit to the government, and they'll conduct an investigation. Three months later you can print your fidget spinner.
- wmf 9mo ago
  I think the designs have advanced a lot since the first but what hasn't changed is that printed guns are mostly for hobbyists while criminals mostly use normal guns.
- Jamesbeam 9mo ago
  Currently, building a ghost gun is merely a matter of loading the right files into the appropriate software, purchasing the necessary materials, and beginning the printing process. The assembly instructions are as straightforward as building a Lego set. Do we really want that? Every day, people are actually murdered with these guns. While they may not be more dangerous than a 1911 made in the jungles of the Philippines, acquiring a traditional firearm requires engaging with real people, which gives law enforcement a better chance to intercept someone before they can commit acts of violence with an illegal firearm. What this bill does is not make it impossible to build a firearm with the available technology, instead, it raises the entry point beyond what the average American can navigate. Let's be honest. Many of the individuals printing guns aren't doing it out of curiosity but to use them criminally. These individuals typically have a 30-second TikTok attention span, minimal resilience to failure, and little to no physical skills. Most of them have likely already been incarcerated and are therefore prohibited from legally purchasing firearms. By creating a database of unique hashes for the publicly accessible printing files, we would deny about 95% of those individuals access to easily obtainable illegal firearms. This list can be updated by authorities whenever someone modifies a public file needed to print a firearm, and with online access, similar to many normal printers, it could even alert law enforcement when someone tries to print these files. This approach enhances safety for everyone, as guns, legal or not, shouldn't be in the hands of irresponsible individuals. Regardless of your views on firearm possession, I believe we can all agree on that point. If you possess the skills to modify those files to make them printable, you must be smart enough to recognize that printing a gun, unless it’s purely as a project to build and then destroy for the sake of personal achievement, is inherently a foolish idea. Additionally, the Liberator design had a singular purpose, it was inspired by French resistance fighters who needed just one bullet to take out Nazis and then acquire their well-functioning, fully loaded submachine guns. This allowed them to kill more Nazis and obtain more weapons for their resistance efforts. The U.S. is not currently under Nazi occupation, and law enforcement already faces significant challenges. They shouldn't have to worry about every individual they encounter potentially possessing an untraceable firearm, which may even resist fingerprint identification. Society owes it to those risking their lives daily to keep the community safe. A world in which anyone can press a button and create their own unregulated, untraceable firearm is not safe for any of us.
20after4 9mo ago
This is one of the most concerning attacks on personal freedom I've seen recently and that's really saying something since we live in a rapidly evolving oppressive Orwellian dystopia.
exabrial 9mo ago
It's about controls. Being self sufficient is the greatest threat to a authoritarian government, which mirrors the states attempting to pass such legislation.
Nevermark 9mo ago
Industry exploits politicians to warp industry in their favor. Politicians exploit industry's willingness to fund campaigns, or PR around the politician and the issue. There are no organic overreactions or misunderstandings by anyone. Although the politicians are fine if you "see through" them and conclude that, since that would be much less cynical than the reality. Everyone involved knows this isn't doing any good. Studiously appearing to not know or not care, regarding their own legislation, demonstrates they know.
JodieBenitez 9mo ago
Let's ban kitchen knives next.
Kim_Bruning 9mo ago
Is American industry very different from European industry? Chunks of Europe are full of workshops delivering to the larger factories, and they're all full of CNC and additive manufacturing gear.
jasomill 9mo ago
Something must be done. This is something. Therefore we must do this.
- WillAdams 9mo ago
  Why not a more reasonable bit of legislation? Felons, or persons convicted of misdemeanor domestic abuse who are barred by statute from owning or touching firearms are required to have an approval mechanism in place on their 3D printers and other CNC machines where before any part is made, their parole officer must review and then approve it for manufacture. In the absence of such a mechanism, they are not allowed to own such devices.
  - direwolf20 9mo ago
    That is not reasonable
    - WillAdams 9mo ago
      It's more reasonable than what is being proposed (which is my point).
mhb 9mo ago
Makes sense in light of all the 3D printed guns that Iranians used to defend themselves against their government.
aiiizzz 9mo ago
3d printers will have to change the game when it comes to gun rights everywhere. I'm surprised it's taking so long to even appear on the radar.

48 points by WaitWaitWha 9mo ago

Yep all these states are pushing copies of the same legislation, seeking to ban printers. Allegedly for gun control reasons, but that doesn’t make sense since it is very rare for crimes to be committed using 3d printed guns. Even if they were, the second amendment protects the right to bear arms unconditionally.

gnosis67 9mo ago
The perceived problem may have more to do with the mass production of arms, rather than lone incidents.
- AngryData 9mo ago
  But that same problem has existed since the 60s when machine tools became common and cheap enough for people to put in their garages. Table top CNC machines existed in the 90s and that wasn't some looming threat. To me this is all fearmongering to try and restrict people from making their own stuff instead of buying it all or fixing old stuff.
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
- esseph 9mo ago
  That one guy just needed some plumbing pipe to get Shinzo Abe. This is an overreaction by some, and a chance to exploit by others.
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]

ehnto 9mo ago

The country is filled with regular guns, legal and illegal, this seems like a really pointless avenue of restriction. It's also already illegal to manufacture weapons without the required licenses, so if someone is okay breaking that law, they would probably be okay making their own 3D printer or CNC machine from the commodity parts they are made from. What next, ban aluminium profile and stepper motors? Let's not forget hex head screws! I hear CNC machines have a lot of wiring, maybe they will ban the element copper. All that to say, this would be both ineffective at changing the problem and extremely frustrating to law abiding citizens. Stifling innovation is one thing, squashing small businesses regular operations would be another outcome. CNC machines have been around for decades, powering small industries that have pumping out bespoke parts for years.

tsss 9mo ago
They just like banning stuff. Guns, child porn, whatever is just a pretense to restrict your freedoms. That's what governments, any and all governments, do.

nick238 9mo ago

While "The Liberator" (one of the first 3d printed guns) was interesting as a test of the technology and what it means for the law, I don't know if I'd trust using one to not blow up in my hands. Pretty sure you could assemble a zip gun in a Home Depot (they even sell cartridges for powder-actuated tools) that's less dangerous for you, more dangerous downrange. It is a total mystery how the Washington bill's cited "blocking technology" is supposed to work. If you load a pipe-shaped object into your CAM software, how the hell is it supposed to know if it's an illegal firearm part or just a manifold? Maybe before each time it generates some G-code, you need to submit a signed affidavit to the government, and they'll conduct an investigation. Three months later you can print your fidget spinner.

wmf 9mo ago
I think the designs have advanced a lot since the first but what hasn't changed is that printed guns are mostly for hobbyists while criminals mostly use normal guns.
Jamesbeam 9mo ago
Currently, building a ghost gun is merely a matter of loading the right files into the appropriate software, purchasing the necessary materials, and beginning the printing process. The assembly instructions are as straightforward as building a Lego set. Do we really want that? Every day, people are actually murdered with these guns. While they may not be more dangerous than a 1911 made in the jungles of the Philippines, acquiring a traditional firearm requires engaging with real people, which gives law enforcement a better chance to intercept someone before they can commit acts of violence with an illegal firearm. What this bill does is not make it impossible to build a firearm with the available technology, instead, it raises the entry point beyond what the average American can navigate. Let's be honest. Many of the individuals printing guns aren't doing it out of curiosity but to use them criminally. These individuals typically have a 30-second TikTok attention span, minimal resilience to failure, and little to no physical skills. Most of them have likely already been incarcerated and are therefore prohibited from legally purchasing firearms. By creating a database of unique hashes for the publicly accessible printing files, we would deny about 95% of those individuals access to easily obtainable illegal firearms. This list can be updated by authorities whenever someone modifies a public file needed to print a firearm, and with online access, similar to many normal printers, it could even alert law enforcement when someone tries to print these files. This approach enhances safety for everyone, as guns, legal or not, shouldn't be in the hands of irresponsible individuals. Regardless of your views on firearm possession, I believe we can all agree on that point. If you possess the skills to modify those files to make them printable, you must be smart enough to recognize that printing a gun, unless it’s purely as a project to build and then destroy for the sake of personal achievement, is inherently a foolish idea. Additionally, the Liberator design had a singular purpose, it was inspired by French resistance fighters who needed just one bullet to take out Nazis and then acquire their well-functioning, fully loaded submachine guns. This allowed them to kill more Nazis and obtain more weapons for their resistance efforts. The U.S. is not currently under Nazi occupation, and law enforcement already faces significant challenges. They shouldn't have to worry about every individual they encounter potentially possessing an untraceable firearm, which may even resist fingerprint identification. Society owes it to those risking their lives daily to keep the community safe. A world in which anyone can press a button and create their own unregulated, untraceable firearm is not safe for any of us.

20after4 9mo ago

This is one of the most concerning attacks on personal freedom I've seen recently and that's really saying something since we live in a rapidly evolving oppressive Orwellian dystopia.

exabrial 9mo ago

It's about controls. Being self sufficient is the greatest threat to a authoritarian government, which mirrors the states attempting to pass such legislation.

Nevermark 9mo ago

Industry exploits politicians to warp industry in their favor. Politicians exploit industry's willingness to fund campaigns, or PR around the politician and the issue. There are no organic overreactions or misunderstandings by anyone. Although the politicians are fine if you "see through" them and conclude that, since that would be much less cynical than the reality. Everyone involved knows this isn't doing any good. Studiously appearing to not know or not care, regarding their own legislation, demonstrates they know.

JodieBenitez 9mo ago

Let's ban kitchen knives next.

Kim_Bruning 9mo ago

Is American industry very different from European industry? Chunks of Europe are full of workshops delivering to the larger factories, and they're all full of CNC and additive manufacturing gear.

jasomill 9mo ago

Something must be done. This is something. Therefore we must do this.

WillAdams 9mo ago
Why not a more reasonable bit of legislation? Felons, or persons convicted of misdemeanor domestic abuse who are barred by statute from owning or touching firearms are required to have an approval mechanism in place on their 3D printers and other CNC machines where before any part is made, their parole officer must review and then approve it for manufacture. In the absence of such a mechanism, they are not allowed to own such devices.
- direwolf20 9mo ago
  That is not reasonable
  - WillAdams 9mo ago
    It's more reasonable than what is being proposed (which is my point).

mhb 9mo ago

Makes sense in light of all the 3D printed guns that Iranians used to defend themselves against their government.

aiiizzz 9mo ago

3d printers will have to change the game when it comes to gun rights everywhere. I'm surprised it's taking so long to even appear on the radar.