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I freely admit I'm making a value judgment here. But I am not imposing my values on anyone. I'm just noting that I find the thought of anyone spending their w

by gnosis 14y ago

I freely admit I'm making a value judgment here. But I am not imposing my values on anyone. I'm just noting that I find the thought of anyone spending their whole life sorting or boiling corks depressing. I'm willing to go out on a limb to imagine they could have more interesting and more fulfilling jobs than that, and even that those jobs need not be environmentally destructive -- they might be environmentally beneficial, even. Is this such a stretch? Would that be so wrong? Is it inconceivable that some of these people might not actually enjoy spending all their work hours sorting or boiling cork? Just because they and perhaps their ancestors have been doing this for a long time, does that mean that they enjoy it or would not rather be doing something else with their time? Speaking of imposing values, perhaps these workers should actually be asked about what they want to do and whether they want their lives and their children's lives to be dedicated to sorting cork.

jlgreco 14y ago
It is incredibly obvious you have never worked this sort of job before. Prior to getting into university I worked fulltime at a green-bean processing plant. Green-beans come in on a truck, straight from a harvester, and leave on another truck cut and washed. Exposed to the elements (roof, but no walls) in deafening noise, standing in front of a conveyor belt for hours staring at green beans trying to grab all the dead field animals, sticks, and stems before they went into the cutting machine. The beans were soaking wet so my hands were constantly freezing. On good days they threw me a rake and told me to climb into the back of a tractor trailer. After a while that gave me RSI. It was I suspect worse than cork sorting or soaking. Certainly comparable. Did I enjoy this job? Hell no. Would I rather have been doing something else? No shit. Would I, even in retrospect, want myself forced out of that job at that time? Fuck no. Would I ever think of going back there and suggesting that all those other workers be replaced to improve their lives? You have got to be fucking kidding me.
- gnosis 14y ago
  You seem to be suffering from some sort of tunnel vision that lets you see only two options here: the miserable status quo or everyone getting fired. I am not advocating firing anyone. If someone enjoys sorting cork, or if they are just too afraid to make a transition to more interesting and fulfilling work, I'd have no problem with them staying on. What I do advocate is actually asking these people if they want to stay on or be trained to do more interesting and fulfilling work. For those who do choose to do something else, I think it would be a good thing to make this option available to them, especially when the same job could be done by machines.
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    "If someone enjoys sorting cork, or if they are just too afraid to make a transition to more interesting and fulfilling work" That you think life is so simple really highlights your privilege.

by gnosis 14y ago

jlgreco 14y ago

It is incredibly obvious you have never worked this sort of job before. Prior to getting into university I worked fulltime at a green-bean processing plant. Green-beans come in on a truck, straight from a harvester, and leave on another truck cut and washed. Exposed to the elements (roof, but no walls) in deafening noise, standing in front of a conveyor belt for hours staring at green beans trying to grab all the dead field animals, sticks, and stems before they went into the cutting machine. The beans were soaking wet so my hands were constantly freezing. On good days they threw me a rake and told me to climb into the back of a tractor trailer. After a while that gave me RSI. It was I suspect worse than cork sorting or soaking. Certainly comparable. Did I enjoy this job? Hell no. Would I rather have been doing something else? No shit. Would I, even in retrospect, want myself forced out of that job at that time? Fuck no. Would I ever think of going back there and suggesting that all those other workers be replaced to improve their lives? You have got to be fucking kidding me.

gnosis 14y ago
You seem to be suffering from some sort of tunnel vision that lets you see only two options here: the miserable status quo or everyone getting fired. I am not advocating firing anyone. If someone enjoys sorting cork, or if they are just too afraid to make a transition to more interesting and fulfilling work, I'd have no problem with them staying on. What I do advocate is actually asking these people if they want to stay on or be trained to do more interesting and fulfilling work. For those who do choose to do something else, I think it would be a good thing to make this option available to them, especially when the same job could be done by machines.
- jlgreco 14y ago
  "If someone enjoys sorting cork, or if they are just too afraid to make a transition to more interesting and fulfilling work" That you think life is so simple really highlights your privilege.