9 ms·

Yup, it's where I got a lot of my linux knowledge. I think that Gentoo or even Arch would provide pretty close to the same education level, though, with a lot

by cogman10 10mo ago

Yup, it's where I got a lot of my linux knowledge. I think that Gentoo or even Arch would provide pretty close to the same education level, though, with a lot less time to install.

Chilinot 10mo ago
Having installed Arch myself a couple of times, i think i would disagree. Not really much in that process that teaches you how linux actually works. It's more just about managing disk partitions and moving files around than anything else. LFS is just on a whole different level, and is on my bucket list to complete the entire process one day.
- jdc0589 10mo ago
  agreed. I haven't done LFS, but ive done arch and plently of other distros for a good while and I definitely wouldn't say I have a rock solid understanding of the fundamentals.
- necovek 10mo ago
  Agreed! As an addendum, you have to do it for your actual working computer, otherwise, doing it on a VM or a machine you don't use, you won't be learning nearly as much as there is no pressure to make it truly work for you (this is where learning happens, when the thing you wanted to configure, and LFS docs or web docs are out of date on, so you have to dig deeper).
- cogman10 10mo ago
  I've completed it along with BLFS and I just don't really agree. Like, yes you get pretty familiar with autotools, sed, and patch. However, a lot of LFS is in fact just managing disk partitions and moving files around. LFS also glosses over a lot of pretty important parts like kernel configuration. The docs from both Gentoo and Arch, on the other hand, are much more complete and practical in explaining things and also troubleshooting problems. And at the end of the process you're left with a system that can be easily maintained. LFS is harder, but that doesn't really mean you end up learning more. Especially since it's pretty easy to lose focus and just rely on copy/pasting the next command to run. Edit: Just an example of what I mean. Here is the LFS discussion of filesystems. https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/stable/chapter02/creatingfilesystem.html https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/stable/chapter02/c... And here is the same Gentoo discussion. https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Disks https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Dis...
  - shevy-java 10mo ago
    Gentoo I understand but Arch? Does Arch go into compilation that much?
    - cogman10 10mo ago
      Not so much compilation, but it does delve into system management in a way that other OSes don't. Arch has few defaults setup for the user, so if you do it from scratch you'll end up needing to go through several of the general setup recommendations [1]. That's where you end up learning a lot about linux which is particularly practical. Other Linux distros, especially for the desktop, hide a lot of this information behind nice guis. [1] https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/General_recommendations https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/General_recommendations
- wiredpancake 10mo ago
  [dead]
- _qib3 10mo ago
  It's not just the installation process. Being forced to manage or setup automatic management for most parts of your system teaches you a lot. Often it's just as simple as `sudo pacman -Sy yabdabadoo` but its more instructive than it 'just working'.
ilvez 10mo ago
Other point is long time maintainability as well.. Like unistalling stuff you don't need etc. Or LFS solves it?
- cogman10 10mo ago
  Yeah, that was a real lesson for me when I did LFS. It was super neat when I got it running for a while, but young me that did it really didn't understand the concept of "Ok, but now you need to upgrade things". That was some of my first experiences with the pain of a glibc update and going "ohhh, that's why people don't run these sorts of systems".
- shevy-java 10mo ago
  I used versioned AppDirs for that, e. g. /Programs/Python/3.13/. If I don't need it anymore, the directory is removed and a script runs. Similar to GoboLinux. I do however had not use GoboLinux right now; GoboLinux unfortunately lacks documentation, LFS/BLFS has better documentation. Finding information these days is hard - google search has become sooooo bad ...
- hulitu 10mo ago
  > Like unistalling stuff you don't need This will lead to a lot of learning. /s
rascul 10mo ago
> I think that Gentoo or even Arch would provide pretty close to the same education level, though, with a lot less time to install. it only takes three commands to install Gentoo cfdisk /dev/hda && mkfs.xfs /dev/hda1 && mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/gentoo/ && chroot /mnt/gentoo/ && env-update && . /etc/profile && emerge sync && cd /usr/portage && scripts/bootsrap.sh && emerge system && emerge vim && vi /etc/fstab && emerge gentoo-dev-sources && cd /usr/src/linux && make menuconfig && make install modules_install && emerge gnome mozilla-firefox openoffice && emerge grub && cp /boot/grub/grub.conf.sample /boot/grub/grub.conf && vi /boot/grub/grub.conf && grub && init 6 that's the first one https://web.archive.org/web/20230601013339/http://bash.org/?464385 https://web.archive.org/web/20230601013339/http://bash.org/?...
- djhworld 10mo ago
  I remember playing with Gentoo back in 2004-2005, going through the installation procedure from "stage 1" all the way through to the working system [1] It looks like nowadays the handbook says just go from stage 3, which makes sense - compiling everything was kinda stupid :D [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20041013055338/http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6 https://web.archive.org/web/20041013055338/http://www.gentoo...
  - porl 10mo ago
    I made the mistake of hitting from stage 1 an `emerge world` on a Pentium 3 (I think? P4 at the very best) with a full Open Office and Firefox selection. No idea how long it would take. One week later I finally saw my new desktop! I learnt a hell of a lot with Gentoo - only had a dvd and the magazine it came with stepping through the stage 1 install process. No internet connection to search for answers when things went wrong. Not my current daily driver but definitely some good memories!
- hulitu 10mo ago
  > it only takes three commands to install Gentoo > cfdisk /dev/hda Kids those days. You need to _boot_ first in a system which has those utilities. Also hda is from last century but, it is good for learning why.
markeroon 10mo ago
I learned so much installing and using Gentoo about 20 years ago
tomkarho 10mo ago
Let's break it down to traditional skill level terminology Apprentice: Ubuntu, Fedora Journeyman: Arch, Debian, Gentoo Master: Linux From Scratch
- hulitu 10mo ago
  You forgot Slackware.
- jasomill 10mo ago
  Grandmaster: Ubuntu, Fedora
- herewulf 10mo ago
  Master of the Universe: Guix System Write your entire system definition once and never again.

Yup, it's where I got a lot of my linux knowledge. I think that Gentoo or even Arch would provide pretty close to the same education level, though, with a lot less time to install.

Chilinot 10mo ago

Having installed Arch myself a couple of times, i think i would disagree. Not really much in that process that teaches you how linux actually works. It's more just about managing disk partitions and moving files around than anything else. LFS is just on a whole different level, and is on my bucket list to complete the entire process one day.

jdc0589 10mo ago
agreed. I haven't done LFS, but ive done arch and plently of other distros for a good while and I definitely wouldn't say I have a rock solid understanding of the fundamentals.
necovek 10mo ago
Agreed! As an addendum, you have to do it for your actual working computer, otherwise, doing it on a VM or a machine you don't use, you won't be learning nearly as much as there is no pressure to make it truly work for you (this is where learning happens, when the thing you wanted to configure, and LFS docs or web docs are out of date on, so you have to dig deeper).
cogman10 10mo ago
I've completed it along with BLFS and I just don't really agree. Like, yes you get pretty familiar with autotools, sed, and patch. However, a lot of LFS is in fact just managing disk partitions and moving files around. LFS also glosses over a lot of pretty important parts like kernel configuration. The docs from both Gentoo and Arch, on the other hand, are much more complete and practical in explaining things and also troubleshooting problems. And at the end of the process you're left with a system that can be easily maintained. LFS is harder, but that doesn't really mean you end up learning more. Especially since it's pretty easy to lose focus and just rely on copy/pasting the next command to run. Edit: Just an example of what I mean. Here is the LFS discussion of filesystems. https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/stable/chapter02/creatingfilesystem.html https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/stable/chapter02/c... And here is the same Gentoo discussion. https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Disks https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Dis...
- shevy-java 10mo ago
  Gentoo I understand but Arch? Does Arch go into compilation that much?
  - cogman10 10mo ago
    Not so much compilation, but it does delve into system management in a way that other OSes don't. Arch has few defaults setup for the user, so if you do it from scratch you'll end up needing to go through several of the general setup recommendations [1]. That's where you end up learning a lot about linux which is particularly practical. Other Linux distros, especially for the desktop, hide a lot of this information behind nice guis. [1] https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/General_recommendations https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/General_recommendations
wiredpancake 10mo ago
[dead]
_qib3 10mo ago
It's not just the installation process. Being forced to manage or setup automatic management for most parts of your system teaches you a lot. Often it's just as simple as `sudo pacman -Sy yabdabadoo` but its more instructive than it 'just working'.

ilvez 10mo ago

Other point is long time maintainability as well.. Like unistalling stuff you don't need etc. Or LFS solves it?

cogman10 10mo ago
Yeah, that was a real lesson for me when I did LFS. It was super neat when I got it running for a while, but young me that did it really didn't understand the concept of "Ok, but now you need to upgrade things". That was some of my first experiences with the pain of a glibc update and going "ohhh, that's why people don't run these sorts of systems".
shevy-java 10mo ago
I used versioned AppDirs for that, e. g. /Programs/Python/3.13/. If I don't need it anymore, the directory is removed and a script runs. Similar to GoboLinux. I do however had not use GoboLinux right now; GoboLinux unfortunately lacks documentation, LFS/BLFS has better documentation. Finding information these days is hard - google search has become sooooo bad ...
hulitu 10mo ago
> Like unistalling stuff you don't need This will lead to a lot of learning. /s

rascul 10mo ago

> I think that Gentoo or even Arch would provide pretty close to the same education level, though, with a lot less time to install. it only takes three commands to install Gentoo cfdisk /dev/hda && mkfs.xfs /dev/hda1 && mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/gentoo/ && chroot /mnt/gentoo/ && env-update && . /etc/profile && emerge sync && cd /usr/portage && scripts/bootsrap.sh && emerge system && emerge vim && vi /etc/fstab && emerge gentoo-dev-sources && cd /usr/src/linux && make menuconfig && make install modules_install && emerge gnome mozilla-firefox openoffice && emerge grub && cp /boot/grub/grub.conf.sample /boot/grub/grub.conf && vi /boot/grub/grub.conf && grub && init 6 that's the first one https://web.archive.org/web/20230601013339/http://bash.org/?464385 https://web.archive.org/web/20230601013339/http://bash.org/?...

djhworld 10mo ago
I remember playing with Gentoo back in 2004-2005, going through the installation procedure from "stage 1" all the way through to the working system [1] It looks like nowadays the handbook says just go from stage 3, which makes sense - compiling everything was kinda stupid :D [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20041013055338/http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6 https://web.archive.org/web/20041013055338/http://www.gentoo...
- porl 10mo ago
  I made the mistake of hitting from stage 1 an `emerge world` on a Pentium 3 (I think? P4 at the very best) with a full Open Office and Firefox selection. No idea how long it would take. One week later I finally saw my new desktop! I learnt a hell of a lot with Gentoo - only had a dvd and the magazine it came with stepping through the stage 1 install process. No internet connection to search for answers when things went wrong. Not my current daily driver but definitely some good memories!
hulitu 10mo ago
> it only takes three commands to install Gentoo > cfdisk /dev/hda Kids those days. You need to _boot_ first in a system which has those utilities. Also hda is from last century but, it is good for learning why.

markeroon 10mo ago

I learned so much installing and using Gentoo about 20 years ago

tomkarho 10mo ago

Let's break it down to traditional skill level terminology Apprentice: Ubuntu, Fedora Journeyman: Arch, Debian, Gentoo Master: Linux From Scratch

hulitu 10mo ago
You forgot Slackware.
jasomill 10mo ago
Grandmaster: Ubuntu, Fedora
herewulf 10mo ago
Master of the Universe: Guix System Write your entire system definition once and never again.