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I think the workers presented are rather candid, most you cannot even see their expression, so there is no faked "infomercial" quality to this. I am also aware

by novalis 14y ago

I think the workers presented are rather candid, most you cannot even see their expression, so there is no faked "infomercial" quality to this. I am also aware that in any industry there will be people that are not happy for many valid reasons. I would not use the adjective "depressing" to qualify human labour that respects the environment it is set in, helps populations keep living in interior mediterranean areas, and to speak about the product; help make something that has a wide field of application. In fact these zones benefit from a lot of quality rural turism because of the loop feed that comes out of grape, cork, rural area setting with life quality parameters that are disappearing all around the world. These are strong people that shouldn't be paternalized for their strong value system that preserves habitat and social condition in a strong group pattern. But that is just my opinion based on the contact I have with this sort of cultural setting. All of these things make this specialized manual labour part of a culture that warrants preservation, not arbitrary value imposition.

gnosis 14y ago
I freely admit I'm making a value judgment here. But I am not imposing my values on anyone. I'm just noting that I find the thought of anyone spending their whole life sorting or boiling corks depressing. I'm willing to go out on a limb to imagine they could have more interesting and more fulfilling jobs than that, and even that those jobs need not be environmentally destructive -- they might be environmentally beneficial, even. Is this such a stretch? Would that be so wrong? Is it inconceivable that some of these people might not actually enjoy spending all their work hours sorting or boiling cork? Just because they and perhaps their ancestors have been doing this for a long time, does that mean that they enjoy it or would not rather be doing something else with their time? Speaking of imposing values, perhaps these workers should actually be asked about what they want to do and whether they want their lives and their children's lives to be dedicated to sorting cork.
- jlgreco 14y ago
  It is incredibly obvious you have never worked this sort of job before. Prior to getting into university I worked fulltime at a green-bean processing plant. Green-beans come in on a truck, straight from a harvester, and leave on another truck cut and washed. Exposed to the elements (roof, but no walls) in deafening noise, standing in front of a conveyor belt for hours staring at green beans trying to grab all the dead field animals, sticks, and stems before they went into the cutting machine. The beans were soaking wet so my hands were constantly freezing. On good days they threw me a rake and told me to climb into the back of a tractor trailer. After a while that gave me RSI. It was I suspect worse than cork sorting or soaking. Certainly comparable. Did I enjoy this job? Hell no. Would I rather have been doing something else? No shit. Would I, even in retrospect, want myself forced out of that job at that time? Fuck no. Would I ever think of going back there and suggesting that all those other workers be replaced to improve their lives? You have got to be fucking kidding me.
  - gnosis 14y ago
    You seem to be suffering from some sort of tunnel vision that lets you see only two options here: the miserable status quo or everyone getting fired. I am not advocating firing anyone. If someone enjoys sorting cork, or if they are just too afraid to make a transition to more interesting and fulfilling work, I'd have no problem with them staying on. What I do advocate is actually asking these people if they want to stay on or be trained to do more interesting and fulfilling work. For those who do choose to do something else, I think it would be a good thing to make this option available to them, especially when the same job could be done by machines.
    - jlgreco 14y ago
      "If someone enjoys sorting cork, or if they are just too afraid to make a transition to more interesting and fulfilling work" That you think life is so simple really highlights your privilege.

by novalis 14y ago

gnosis 14y ago

I freely admit I'm making a value judgment here. But I am not imposing my values on anyone. I'm just noting that I find the thought of anyone spending their whole life sorting or boiling corks depressing. I'm willing to go out on a limb to imagine they could have more interesting and more fulfilling jobs than that, and even that those jobs need not be environmentally destructive -- they might be environmentally beneficial, even. Is this such a stretch? Would that be so wrong? Is it inconceivable that some of these people might not actually enjoy spending all their work hours sorting or boiling cork? Just because they and perhaps their ancestors have been doing this for a long time, does that mean that they enjoy it or would not rather be doing something else with their time? Speaking of imposing values, perhaps these workers should actually be asked about what they want to do and whether they want their lives and their children's lives to be dedicated to sorting cork.

jlgreco 14y ago
It is incredibly obvious you have never worked this sort of job before. Prior to getting into university I worked fulltime at a green-bean processing plant. Green-beans come in on a truck, straight from a harvester, and leave on another truck cut and washed. Exposed to the elements (roof, but no walls) in deafening noise, standing in front of a conveyor belt for hours staring at green beans trying to grab all the dead field animals, sticks, and stems before they went into the cutting machine. The beans were soaking wet so my hands were constantly freezing. On good days they threw me a rake and told me to climb into the back of a tractor trailer. After a while that gave me RSI. It was I suspect worse than cork sorting or soaking. Certainly comparable. Did I enjoy this job? Hell no. Would I rather have been doing something else? No shit. Would I, even in retrospect, want myself forced out of that job at that time? Fuck no. Would I ever think of going back there and suggesting that all those other workers be replaced to improve their lives? You have got to be fucking kidding me.
- gnosis 14y ago
  You seem to be suffering from some sort of tunnel vision that lets you see only two options here: the miserable status quo or everyone getting fired. I am not advocating firing anyone. If someone enjoys sorting cork, or if they are just too afraid to make a transition to more interesting and fulfilling work, I'd have no problem with them staying on. What I do advocate is actually asking these people if they want to stay on or be trained to do more interesting and fulfilling work. For those who do choose to do something else, I think it would be a good thing to make this option available to them, especially when the same job could be done by machines.
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    "If someone enjoys sorting cork, or if they are just too afraid to make a transition to more interesting and fulfilling work" That you think life is so simple really highlights your privilege.