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Interesting. It seems that in industries where productivity/output isn't the primary goal (so not Software, Analytics, etc), people care more about where thei

Interesting. It seems that in industries where productivity/output isn't the primary goal (so not Software, Analytics, etc), people care more about *where* their content comes from. It's quite indiscriminate in Software, for sure, I feel like people don't care whether you used an AI to write your code as long as it works. But I don't see AI getting real footing really ever in the creative world because people want authenticity there. It's why I think Suno, for example, is never really going to go anywhere.

gruez 9mo ago
>It's quite indiscriminate in Software, for sure, I feel like people don't care whether you used an AI to write your code as long as it works. Because it's hard to tell whether the app you're using is vibecoded or not. Is an app buggy because it was vibecoded? Or the developer just sucks?
maeln 9mo ago
> But I don't see AI getting real footing really ever in the creative world because people want authenticity there. It's why I think Suno, for example, is never really going to go anywhere. Oh I bet it will go somewhere. There is already plenty of low-budget direct-to-dvd movie, cheap soap opera telenovelas, and elevator music used as background in public places. These don't care about quality, they were always about making the cheapest product possible that can generate revenue / be used as a backdrop. Gen AI is going to be a race to the bottom for this field. But for "labour of love" art/media, they might have a place in the toolbox (to generate a texture, fill some unimportant background, etc), but full gen AI media won't cut it. Intention, direction, realization is what matter. And since most community are about those labour of love, it shouldn't be a surprise that most people who attend conferences are heavily against gen AI.
Daedren 9mo ago
It's less about productivity and output (those are still desired in many art fields) but more about creativity and personality, more humane traits. Not to say that coding doesn't have those two, but I'd argue developers have been caring less and less for it over the years. Their relationship with code has changed. You can look at a comic and immediately identify the illustrator if you're well versed in the artists. Now would that still happen in 20 years if Gen AI became standard today? Will we keep getting new artists and new art styles? Or will their relationship with art become more like newer coders have with code? I don't think it's an easy question to answer and no one likely has an answer.
- cdrnsf 9mo ago
  I can listen to music and recognize the artist or a singer’s voice. It doesn’t mean as much without that relationship. Depending on the style of music some of the charm is in production imperfections or sloppy playing that brings a distinctly human quality to it.
- pixl97 9mo ago
  >Not to say that coding doesn't have those two, but I'd argue developers have been caring less and less for it over the years. I think this is both hindsight bias and survivorship bias. There has always been massive buckets of buggy shit code out there. Now, one thing we had in the past was very tight computing limitations that worked as a decent evolutionary death function. As computing resources grew, the selection function became less effective and we get to see these hulking crap monsters lumber around our CPUs.
nerdjon 9mo ago
> It's quite indiscriminate in Software, for sure, I feel like people don't care whether you used an AI to write your code as long as it works. I don't think that is really the case. We are seeing pushback on games developed using AI. Communities like /r/selfhosted is very much pushing back against AI slop code. While right now it seems like for the most part the concern is from more technical people, we are seeing issues of vibe coded applications shipping bugs because the quality is poor (just look at the bugs shipped in Claude Code). I think we will be getting to a point of people questioning the quality of the application they are using and whether or not a human was actually involved if bugs start shipping more often.
- ronsor 9mo ago
  > We are seeing pushback on games developed using AI. Yes, people whine but still buy the games, as long as they're fun. Expressed preference of "AI is always bad" vs revealed preference of "It's fine if the product is still good."
  - twosdai 9mo ago
    One of the things I find interesting as well, is that among many of my friends outside the western world, they typically see: "knowing how something is made" as a western cultural thing. Many of them adopt a "why do you care how it's made, you are a not a manufacturer" type of response. Which i find very interesting. They still care about the quality of the product, just not the process as much. Not sure if this the case for all people or a generalization. Just something I noticed.
- FeteCommuniste 9mo ago
  Is the backlash among gamers to AI code or to AI-made visuals / assets, which are often kind of sloppy or nonsensical if looked at closely? I had only heard about the latter.
azangru 9mo ago
> I feel like people don't care whether you used an AI to write your code as long as it works Oh, some do; for sure they do. Some put a "no ai" badge on their sites; others add disclaimers to their repos if ai has been used to write the code. But I agree with you about the productivity/output. Developers who refrain from using AI are probably more interested in the very process of coding than in its output. They pride themselves on their craft and craftsmanship.
- rezmason 9mo ago
  We also typically value things that are not tied to productivity/output, like product quality/reliability, security, and our own agency. I want to be free to read, write, run, and share code, now and in the future. Relying on centralized services to do it for me (by extracting knowledge from countless other people) is certainly not a resilient strategy.
o_m 9mo ago
This is nothing new: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitsch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitsch
xnorswap 9mo ago
People put value in effort for efforts' sake. An example is there's a split in the woodworking community between people who use power tools and those who use hand-tools only. The latter often seeing it as more pure. Those same power-tools users might in turn look down on something made entirely with a CNC machine. The end result might be the same table. Indeed, the pure uniform lines from a CNC machine might be what both the others strive towards, but they're unlikely to regard the CNC output as being in better taste. The effort and craft itself is well regarded and valued, even if it is hard to capture in the final output. Even if the signs of hand-crafting are fewer the higher the quality craft!
- philipallstar 9mo ago
  I was speaking to an upholsterer yesterday and he was saying that using foam as stuffing is cheating.
- program_whiz 9mo ago
  That's a bit different than art. I put it closer to "why do you care if your girlfriend is AI or real? Isn't it just the end emotions you care about?". There is a deep human connection to art, creativity, expression of human emotions and feelings. Reading a poem about losing a loved one and connecting with it, only to find out it was written by a machine is a deep betrayal of that. Its like finding out the love letter you got in school was actually a mockery by the person you had a crush on -- what does it matter? the letter made you feel good right, and that's all you were after. It matters because intention and emotion of other humans matters to most people. Not everything is purely about being able to output a product and/or produce a tangible good or service. Some things are about people and how people feel. Another example. I run a charity that takes money, but just generates AI videos simulating helping children. What does it matter? Ultimately the person donating just wants to feel like they made a difference, and they get the same feeling either way, believing the money is well spent. It matters because no one is really being helped, no virtue is actually being enacted in the world. In the same way, generating all our art and music from AI would represent a massive harm in the world -- effectively extinguishing massive portions of human creativity, and all the people who get to feel useful in creating, editing, and distributing it. In a cold capitalist view, what does it matter, I just want to see a pretty picture for a moment. In terms of actual real value in the world, it is negative and selfish, assuming the only value is my temporary enjoyment of product.
njhnjh 9mo ago
[dead]
hrdwdmrbl 9mo ago
This is an IS statment, not an OUGHT statement: Artists are very high-status / high-prestige. As such, their work and livelihoods are more important and more deserving of protectionism.
- njhnjh 9mo ago
  [flagged]
- pixl97 9mo ago
  >As such, their work and livelihoods OUGHT to be more important and more deserving of protectionism. FTFY.
rozal 9mo ago
[dead]
RobotToaster 9mo ago
Art is mostly bought by wealthier people currently, they don't like the idea of proles having access to what they do, so requiring it to be organic gives them artificial exclusivity. Similar to organic or "artisan" food.
cosmic_cheese 9mo ago
> It's quite indiscriminate in Software, for sure, I feel like people don't care whether you used an AI to write your code as long as it works. This is starting to change, thanks to the staggering decline in average software quality in recent years (likely partly driven by vibe coding and similar). It’s getting so bad that even non-technical users who’ve traditionally just silently suffered through poor software experiences are starting to take note and voice frustration. Demand for quality “handcrafted” software will almost certainly increase as long as this trend continues.

Interesting. It seems that in industries where productivity/output isn't the primary goal (so not Software, Analytics, etc), people care more about *where* thei

gruez 9mo ago

>It's quite indiscriminate in Software, for sure, I feel like people don't care whether you used an AI to write your code as long as it works. Because it's hard to tell whether the app you're using is vibecoded or not. Is an app buggy because it was vibecoded? Or the developer just sucks?

maeln 9mo ago

> But I don't see AI getting real footing really ever in the creative world because people want authenticity there. It's why I think Suno, for example, is never really going to go anywhere. Oh I bet it will go somewhere. There is already plenty of low-budget direct-to-dvd movie, cheap soap opera telenovelas, and elevator music used as background in public places. These don't care about quality, they were always about making the cheapest product possible that can generate revenue / be used as a backdrop. Gen AI is going to be a race to the bottom for this field. But for "labour of love" art/media, they might have a place in the toolbox (to generate a texture, fill some unimportant background, etc), but full gen AI media won't cut it. Intention, direction, realization is what matter. And since most community are about those labour of love, it shouldn't be a surprise that most people who attend conferences are heavily against gen AI.

Daedren 9mo ago

It's less about productivity and output (those are still desired in many art fields) but more about creativity and personality, more humane traits. Not to say that coding doesn't have those two, but I'd argue developers have been caring less and less for it over the years. Their relationship with code has changed. You can look at a comic and immediately identify the illustrator if you're well versed in the artists. Now would that still happen in 20 years if Gen AI became standard today? Will we keep getting new artists and new art styles? Or will their relationship with art become more like newer coders have with code? I don't think it's an easy question to answer and no one likely has an answer.

cdrnsf 9mo ago
I can listen to music and recognize the artist or a singer’s voice. It doesn’t mean as much without that relationship. Depending on the style of music some of the charm is in production imperfections or sloppy playing that brings a distinctly human quality to it.
pixl97 9mo ago
>Not to say that coding doesn't have those two, but I'd argue developers have been caring less and less for it over the years. I think this is both hindsight bias and survivorship bias. There has always been massive buckets of buggy shit code out there. Now, one thing we had in the past was very tight computing limitations that worked as a decent evolutionary death function. As computing resources grew, the selection function became less effective and we get to see these hulking crap monsters lumber around our CPUs.

nerdjon 9mo ago

> It's quite indiscriminate in Software, for sure, I feel like people don't care whether you used an AI to write your code as long as it works. I don't think that is really the case. We are seeing pushback on games developed using AI. Communities like /r/selfhosted is very much pushing back against AI slop code. While right now it seems like for the most part the concern is from more technical people, we are seeing issues of vibe coded applications shipping bugs because the quality is poor (just look at the bugs shipped in Claude Code). I think we will be getting to a point of people questioning the quality of the application they are using and whether or not a human was actually involved if bugs start shipping more often.

ronsor 9mo ago
> We are seeing pushback on games developed using AI. Yes, people whine but still buy the games, as long as they're fun. Expressed preference of "AI is always bad" vs revealed preference of "It's fine if the product is still good."
- twosdai 9mo ago
  One of the things I find interesting as well, is that among many of my friends outside the western world, they typically see: "knowing how something is made" as a western cultural thing. Many of them adopt a "why do you care how it's made, you are a not a manufacturer" type of response. Which i find very interesting. They still care about the quality of the product, just not the process as much. Not sure if this the case for all people or a generalization. Just something I noticed.
FeteCommuniste 9mo ago
Is the backlash among gamers to AI code or to AI-made visuals / assets, which are often kind of sloppy or nonsensical if looked at closely? I had only heard about the latter.

azangru 9mo ago

> I feel like people don't care whether you used an AI to write your code as long as it works Oh, some do; for sure they do. Some put a "no ai" badge on their sites; others add disclaimers to their repos if ai has been used to write the code. But I agree with you about the productivity/output. Developers who refrain from using AI are probably more interested in the very process of coding than in its output. They pride themselves on their craft and craftsmanship.

rezmason 9mo ago
We also typically value things that are not tied to productivity/output, like product quality/reliability, security, and our own agency. I want to be free to read, write, run, and share code, now and in the future. Relying on centralized services to do it for me (by extracting knowledge from countless other people) is certainly not a resilient strategy.

o_m 9mo ago

This is nothing new: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitsch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitsch

xnorswap 9mo ago

People put value in effort for efforts' sake. An example is there's a split in the woodworking community between people who use power tools and those who use hand-tools only. The latter often seeing it as more pure. Those same power-tools users might in turn look down on something made entirely with a CNC machine. The end result might be the same table. Indeed, the pure uniform lines from a CNC machine might be what both the others strive towards, but they're unlikely to regard the CNC output as being in better taste. The effort and craft itself is well regarded and valued, even if it is hard to capture in the final output. Even if the signs of hand-crafting are fewer the higher the quality craft!

philipallstar 9mo ago
I was speaking to an upholsterer yesterday and he was saying that using foam as stuffing is cheating.
program_whiz 9mo ago
That's a bit different than art. I put it closer to "why do you care if your girlfriend is AI or real? Isn't it just the end emotions you care about?". There is a deep human connection to art, creativity, expression of human emotions and feelings. Reading a poem about losing a loved one and connecting with it, only to find out it was written by a machine is a deep betrayal of that. Its like finding out the love letter you got in school was actually a mockery by the person you had a crush on -- what does it matter? the letter made you feel good right, and that's all you were after. It matters because intention and emotion of other humans matters to most people. Not everything is purely about being able to output a product and/or produce a tangible good or service. Some things are about people and how people feel. Another example. I run a charity that takes money, but just generates AI videos simulating helping children. What does it matter? Ultimately the person donating just wants to feel like they made a difference, and they get the same feeling either way, believing the money is well spent. It matters because no one is really being helped, no virtue is actually being enacted in the world. In the same way, generating all our art and music from AI would represent a massive harm in the world -- effectively extinguishing massive portions of human creativity, and all the people who get to feel useful in creating, editing, and distributing it. In a cold capitalist view, what does it matter, I just want to see a pretty picture for a moment. In terms of actual real value in the world, it is negative and selfish, assuming the only value is my temporary enjoyment of product.

njhnjh 9mo ago

[dead]

hrdwdmrbl 9mo ago

This is an IS statment, not an OUGHT statement: Artists are very high-status / high-prestige. As such, their work and livelihoods are more important and more deserving of protectionism.

njhnjh 9mo ago
[flagged]
pixl97 9mo ago
>As such, their work and livelihoods OUGHT to be more important and more deserving of protectionism. FTFY.

rozal 9mo ago

[dead]

RobotToaster 9mo ago

Art is mostly bought by wealthier people currently, they don't like the idea of proles having access to what they do, so requiring it to be organic gives them artificial exclusivity. Similar to organic or "artisan" food.

cosmic_cheese 9mo ago

> It's quite indiscriminate in Software, for sure, I feel like people don't care whether you used an AI to write your code as long as it works. This is starting to change, thanks to the staggering decline in average software quality in recent years (likely partly driven by vibe coding and similar). It’s getting so bad that even non-technical users who’ve traditionally just silently suffered through poor software experiences are starting to take note and voice frustration. Demand for quality “handcrafted” software will almost certainly increase as long as this trend continues.