5 ms·

Cute, but that's an ineffective belittlement of his argument, not only because it's irrelevant but because he covers that even in the abstract: > Purpose-drive

Cute, but that's an ineffective belittlement of his argument, not only because it's irrelevant but because he covers that even in the abstract: > Purpose-driven institutions [...] empower individuals to take intellectual risks and challenge the status quo. (which of course includes and is most-often the institution itself.)

PaulHoule 8mo ago
I'll argue otherwise. Almost the defining problem of modern institutions is sweeping problems under the rug, be it be climate change or (most important) Habermas's "Legitimation Crisis" [1] It's something I've been watching happen at my Uni ever since I've had anything to do with it. The spectacle of institutions failing to defend themselves [2] turns people against them. Insofar as any external threat topples an institution or even threatens it seriously there was a failure of homeostasis and boundaries from the very building. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legitimation_Crisis_(book) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legitimation_Crisis_(book) [2] ... the king is still on the throne, the pound is still worth a pound ...
- inanutshellus 8mo ago
  That's not a fair statement. Every institution (let's say - my household) sweeps problems under the rug. It's the euphemism for problems that aren't worth dealing with. Institutions (in the form discussed) are either reinvented from the inside out and thus are and remain institutions, or are "toppled" in which case they are not "institutions" but "failures". Think of how the Tea Party and the Libertarian movements or affected Republican politics in years past, or how completely alien the party is compared to a decade ago. The institution of the "Republican party" persists, even though it's nothing like its former self. Same name, same "it's all fine just keep trusting us" but meanwhile quietly burned to the ground from the inside out.
  - PaulHoule 8mo ago
    The backdrop is that centrism is failing everywhere. Macron's France is a great example but you can see it in Starmer's Britain. It might be sensible policy but it doesn't satisfy anyone emotionally whereas Trumpism does. Of course "satisfied emotionally" can leave you with one hell of a hangover the next day.
    - gsf_emergency_6 8mo ago
      Self-trolling, or centre left trolling centre-right, AND vice versa is my best answer to https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=reactionary%20centrism&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... (whatever else the centre stands for in any institution, one needs to see the dividing line _clearly_. What is the dividing line that defines the R-C in HN? Usually has something to do with things that feel like they cannot be said, yes!) Of course details matter*, but how else can we pull the rabbits out from under the rug? *Such as virtuoso listening skills, a functional beta-blocker or quietapine regime, etc. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46713785 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46713785
      - aebtebeten 8mo ago
        Churchill's description of centre-left trolling centre-right and vice versa is his description of politics as being a collision sport where it's important to both be going in the same direction when you make contact, just pushing each other sideways to attempt to achieve an advantage for your side (the common goal should be the primary component; factional goals are secondary)? lagniappe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcJ9QDN_-cw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcJ9QDN_-cw
        gsf_emergency_6 8mo ago
        Sounds about right. Here though.. have we figured out what the common goal is? I'm not even sure what the factional ones are.. "Decoupling by coupling" is my name for this confusion :) Concrete to-do is to dissect and mount some YouTube transcripts for ah, what I'd call "offspring activation" On the other axis, there is mention of lyingflat so that's where I've been nudging the trolls :) For both I'll have to read Hiroyuki Nishimura. May take a month! (Both the original and the Chinese version) "Things that cannot be said" as per Orwell are indeed part of the troll-sploration, shall we say, common, objectives.. ? L: https://youtu.be/HBURlcNpfoo https://youtu.be/HBURlcNpfoo PS: Buxton 100 has my vote :)

PaulHoule 8mo ago

I'll argue otherwise. Almost the defining problem of modern institutions is sweeping problems under the rug, be it be climate change or (most important) Habermas's "Legitimation Crisis" [1] It's something I've been watching happen at my Uni ever since I've had anything to do with it. The spectacle of institutions failing to defend themselves [2] turns people against them. Insofar as any external threat topples an institution or even threatens it seriously there was a failure of homeostasis and boundaries from the very building. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legitimation_Crisis_(book) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legitimation_Crisis_(book) [2] ... the king is still on the throne, the pound is still worth a pound ...

inanutshellus 8mo ago
That's not a fair statement. Every institution (let's say - my household) sweeps problems under the rug. It's the euphemism for problems that aren't worth dealing with. Institutions (in the form discussed) are either reinvented from the inside out and thus are and remain institutions, or are "toppled" in which case they are not "institutions" but "failures". Think of how the Tea Party and the Libertarian movements or affected Republican politics in years past, or how completely alien the party is compared to a decade ago. The institution of the "Republican party" persists, even though it's nothing like its former self. Same name, same "it's all fine just keep trusting us" but meanwhile quietly burned to the ground from the inside out.
- PaulHoule 8mo ago
  The backdrop is that centrism is failing everywhere. Macron's France is a great example but you can see it in Starmer's Britain. It might be sensible policy but it doesn't satisfy anyone emotionally whereas Trumpism does. Of course "satisfied emotionally" can leave you with one hell of a hangover the next day.
  - gsf_emergency_6 8mo ago
    Self-trolling, or centre left trolling centre-right, AND vice versa is my best answer to https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=reactionary%20centrism&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... (whatever else the centre stands for in any institution, one needs to see the dividing line _clearly_. What is the dividing line that defines the R-C in HN? Usually has something to do with things that feel like they cannot be said, yes!) Of course details matter*, but how else can we pull the rabbits out from under the rug? *Such as virtuoso listening skills, a functional beta-blocker or quietapine regime, etc. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46713785 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46713785
    - aebtebeten 8mo ago
      Churchill's description of centre-left trolling centre-right and vice versa is his description of politics as being a collision sport where it's important to both be going in the same direction when you make contact, just pushing each other sideways to attempt to achieve an advantage for your side (the common goal should be the primary component; factional goals are secondary)? lagniappe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcJ9QDN_-cw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcJ9QDN_-cw
      - gsf_emergency_6 8mo ago
        Sounds about right. Here though.. have we figured out what the common goal is? I'm not even sure what the factional ones are.. "Decoupling by coupling" is my name for this confusion :) Concrete to-do is to dissect and mount some YouTube transcripts for ah, what I'd call "offspring activation" On the other axis, there is mention of lyingflat so that's where I've been nudging the trolls :) For both I'll have to read Hiroyuki Nishimura. May take a month! (Both the original and the Chinese version) "Things that cannot be said" as per Orwell are indeed part of the troll-sploration, shall we say, common, objectives.. ? L: https://youtu.be/HBURlcNpfoo https://youtu.be/HBURlcNpfoo PS: Buxton 100 has my vote :)