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Yes please! I tripped over this recently. It's a bigger deal than it might seem. You'd be surprised at some of the weird things that can happen in the current

Yes please! I tripped over this recently. It's a bigger deal than it might seem. You'd be surprised at some of the weird things that can happen in the current systems in the EU if you try to do business across borders. Like: your company suddenly automatically becoming deregistered, or you might get a sudden huge tax bill, or you might even inadvertently get charged with fraud. Hasn't happened so far knock on wood, but it's a lot more work to stay on the light side than you'd really like. This is all because the national systems still sort of assume that you'll live and work and stay inside one EU country. You end up constantly fitting square administrative pegs into regulatory round holes. A lot of the EU's promise is actually theoretical without a proper pan european legal entity.

embedding-shape 9mo ago
> A lot of the EU's promise is actually theoretical without a proper pan european legal entity. Yeah, I feel a bit the same way. Just to make it clear to random passerby's, this is exactly what the proposed EU-INC is for, to create this "pan european legal entity", in case it wasn't clear from the context. I initially asked myself "But that's exactly what it is..." so maybe others end up thinking the same :)
kvgr 9mo ago
This doesnt fix the issue with taxation right? You would stull have to figure out where to pay taxes if you have customers from different countries.
- embedding-shape 9mo ago
  What issue? VAT is paid by the user (collected and remitted by you) and differs by country (used to be hassle, easy today), but the taxes you pay in your country for your company is the same regardless of where the users who paid you are based (assuming there isn't something country-specific about that), it's more about where your company is tax-resident. Unless there are permanent-establishment issues, withholding taxes, or other country-specific digital tax regimes, where your users are based shouldn't affect how/what taxes you pay. Otherwise, if you don't have any employees or presence in other EU countries and only doing digital services B2C, you shouldn't have to do anything specific about the taxes you pay.
  - kvgr 9mo ago
    Yes the issue is i form company in Estonia because i like their non distribution taxes. Or in czechia because i live there. Then move to spain. And they decide to tax the company in spain… with high taxes.
    - embedding-shape 9mo ago
      I mean if you now live in Spain, then you need to pay taxes in Spain, because that's where you live. This makes sense, does it not? Or is the expectation that you shouldn't pay taxes where you live, only where your company that you work for/in is based? FWIW, I also live in Spain, and also pay "high taxes" as I'm in the highest income bracket, and it sucks to see large parts of your income and capital gains disappear. But then I've also experienced the health care here, and see everyone being taken care of, and I sleep well again :)
      - alibarber 9mo ago
        I think they mean that the Estonian company they run now has to file tax returns and pay taxes not only to Estonia but also Spain. The company lives in Estonia. Yeah if they are taking income personally locally then that should go to the country of residence, as is normal. But then if what Estonia considers acceptable standards for tax reporting differs from what Spain considers acceptable, or what they consider 'profit' etc, well good luck!
        embedding-shape 9mo ago
        > the Estonian company they run now has to file tax returns and pay taxes not only to Estonia but also Spain. Yes, this again makes sense to me. You have a company in Estonia, so that pays taxes in Estonia. You work for this company from Spain, so you pay taxes in Spain. Doesn't it work the same elsewhere? What other ways could it work, assuming we want taxes somewhere? > But then if what Estonia considers acceptable standards for tax reporting differs from what Spain considers acceptable Yes, that also makes sense, different countries have different systems? Again, if you open a company in Estonia, the ground assumption has to be that you're up for understanding Estonian tax laws. If you're living in Spain while working for that company, the ground assumption is that you're up for understanding both Spanish and Estonian tax laws, because they should of course get their taxes. As long as I don't get taxed on the same money in both countries (which there are a lot of bi-lateral agreements solving that), I don't see the issue here.
layer8 9mo ago
> This is all because the national systems still sort of assume that you'll live and work and stay inside one EU country. It’s more because taxes and the judiciary are bound to countries.
merelythere 9mo ago
Finally something that feel like removing some borders. On the long term it could bring a lot of positives changes, even breaking or displacing nationalism. And here I am picturing what could look like the new European far right and far left...

embedding-shape 9mo ago

> A lot of the EU's promise is actually theoretical without a proper pan european legal entity. Yeah, I feel a bit the same way. Just to make it clear to random passerby's, this is exactly what the proposed EU-INC is for, to create this "pan european legal entity", in case it wasn't clear from the context. I initially asked myself "But that's exactly what it is..." so maybe others end up thinking the same :)

kvgr 9mo ago

This doesnt fix the issue with taxation right? You would stull have to figure out where to pay taxes if you have customers from different countries.

embedding-shape 9mo ago
What issue? VAT is paid by the user (collected and remitted by you) and differs by country (used to be hassle, easy today), but the taxes you pay in your country for your company is the same regardless of where the users who paid you are based (assuming there isn't something country-specific about that), it's more about where your company is tax-resident. Unless there are permanent-establishment issues, withholding taxes, or other country-specific digital tax regimes, where your users are based shouldn't affect how/what taxes you pay. Otherwise, if you don't have any employees or presence in other EU countries and only doing digital services B2C, you shouldn't have to do anything specific about the taxes you pay.
- kvgr 9mo ago
  Yes the issue is i form company in Estonia because i like their non distribution taxes. Or in czechia because i live there. Then move to spain. And they decide to tax the company in spain… with high taxes.
  - embedding-shape 9mo ago
    I mean if you now live in Spain, then you need to pay taxes in Spain, because that's where you live. This makes sense, does it not? Or is the expectation that you shouldn't pay taxes where you live, only where your company that you work for/in is based? FWIW, I also live in Spain, and also pay "high taxes" as I'm in the highest income bracket, and it sucks to see large parts of your income and capital gains disappear. But then I've also experienced the health care here, and see everyone being taken care of, and I sleep well again :)
    - alibarber 9mo ago
      I think they mean that the Estonian company they run now has to file tax returns and pay taxes not only to Estonia but also Spain. The company lives in Estonia. Yeah if they are taking income personally locally then that should go to the country of residence, as is normal. But then if what Estonia considers acceptable standards for tax reporting differs from what Spain considers acceptable, or what they consider 'profit' etc, well good luck!
      - embedding-shape 9mo ago
        > the Estonian company they run now has to file tax returns and pay taxes not only to Estonia but also Spain. Yes, this again makes sense to me. You have a company in Estonia, so that pays taxes in Estonia. You work for this company from Spain, so you pay taxes in Spain. Doesn't it work the same elsewhere? What other ways could it work, assuming we want taxes somewhere? > But then if what Estonia considers acceptable standards for tax reporting differs from what Spain considers acceptable Yes, that also makes sense, different countries have different systems? Again, if you open a company in Estonia, the ground assumption has to be that you're up for understanding Estonian tax laws. If you're living in Spain while working for that company, the ground assumption is that you're up for understanding both Spanish and Estonian tax laws, because they should of course get their taxes. As long as I don't get taxed on the same money in both countries (which there are a lot of bi-lateral agreements solving that), I don't see the issue here.

layer8 9mo ago

> This is all because the national systems still sort of assume that you'll live and work and stay inside one EU country. It’s more because taxes and the judiciary are bound to countries.

merelythere 9mo ago

Finally something that feel like removing some borders. On the long term it could bring a lot of positives changes, even breaking or displacing nationalism. And here I am picturing what could look like the new European far right and far left...