4 ms·

I don't understand why Apple doesn't offer a headless MacOS or at least a path to a minimal install. Those mac minis make a great little server box but losing 8

I don't understand why Apple doesn't offer a headless MacOS or at least a path to a minimal install. Those mac minis make a great little server box but losing 8GB to hundreds of processes, before you've done anything, just feels wasteful and inelegant.

silvestrov 9mo ago
There are no sales in it. Apple leadership makes decisions based on money. That is also why there is no iPhone mini even though there is a small number of people that really prefer a small phone.
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
- icedchai 9mo ago
  Worse, there's sales in NOT doing it. When I buy a Mac, I get extra memory "just in case." I would've been fine with 24 gigs on my MacBook Pro, but I got 48.
  - ksidisnidjsdj 9mo ago
    [dead]
  - downrightmike 9mo ago
    mr money bags over here
    - icedchai 8mo ago
      Oh yeah. I should've gone for a M4 Max w/128 gigs.
mfro 9mo ago
They did provide OS X Server at one time, but the market just wasn't there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Server https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Server
- awakeasleep 9mo ago
  Not very useful context considering that was before iOS development took off
  - Jtsummers 9mo ago
    > that was before iOS development took off It was offered through the 2010s, iOS development had taken off by then, and the last release was in 2021.
    - daedrdev 9mo ago
      In fact the number of unique apps available on IOS has declined since the 2010s
  - kergonath 9mo ago
    I am not sure iOS popularity would justify macOS as a server. What would be the use case? It's not app development; that is done just fine on the standard desktop macOS. It's not backend; that is done just fine on Linux servers, even in Swift if that's your thing.
    - saagarjha 9mo ago
      Builds
      - kergonath 9mo ago
        You don't need any feature from the old server OS for this, though. You just need your workstation to be on a network.
        saagarjha 9mo ago
        A network connected to what
        yjftsjthsd-h 9mo ago
kylehotchkiss 9mo ago
Those Mac minis are a pain in the ass of a server box that auto-enable FileVault after annual releases, and getting LaunchDaemons just right compared to a Linux OS feels like perpetual iterations. trying to figure out why my apache didn't start after the last reboot. Oh, must have been the Mac log rotator messing with the file permissions again It's a shame, because I love how efficiently MacOS runs and the form factor/design language of a Mac mini is not something I feel the need to hide in a dark corner You'll have to leave virtual desktop enabled, and will definitely be using it semi-regularly aside SSH
- philistine 8mo ago
  I use LingonX to setup which apps and scripts run when. Never had a problem.
crazygringo 9mo ago
> Those mac minis make a great little server box but losing 8GB to hundreds of processes It doesn't matter because all the extra stuff just goes to swap. And you can't disable virtual memory anyways. So in the end you're not really losing anything. Those hundreds of processes are ultimately basically mostly just using up a little bit of your SSD, not your RAM, so it's not a concern.
- saagarjha 9mo ago
  They’re not in swap if those processes wake up to do things
  - crazygringo 9mo ago
    Yeah but they mostly barely do, and only the memory they actually access gets used, as opposed to everything they've allocated. You can observe the actual aggregate usage in Activity Monitor. This is why it's no problem at all to run something actively using 10-12 GB of memory on a 16 GB Mac.
curt15 9mo ago
What sort of applications would benefit from MacOS instead of Linux as a headless server OS?
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
wrxd 9mo ago
What would you use it for? To run Docker containers that rely on a Linux VM anyway?
- wcfields 8mo ago
  Can speak for someone who managed a racked [1] Mac Mini racked as a server in 2015~2018: * Profile Manager / MDM * Caching server for OS updates * Thunderbolt connection to a PCIe RAID HBA for a JBOD for NAS file sharing All these things/use cases now are depreciated, MDM via JAMF in the cloud, internet is fast enough that caching OS updates isn't necessary, and NAS's are much better suited. [1] https://www.sonnettech.com/product/legacyproducts/xmacminiserver_prevgen.html https://www.sonnettech.com/product/legacyproducts/xmacminise...
a3w 9mo ago
I thought a minimal darwin distro exists, giving you headless macos?
jajuuka 8mo ago
They make that, but they don't offer it to anyone to my knowledge. https://www.tomshardware.com/desktops/servers/apples-houston-built-ai-servers-now-shipping https://www.tomshardware.com/desktops/servers/apples-houston...

silvestrov 9mo ago

There are no sales in it. Apple leadership makes decisions based on money. That is also why there is no iPhone mini even though there is a small number of people that really prefer a small phone.

deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
icedchai 9mo ago
Worse, there's sales in NOT doing it. When I buy a Mac, I get extra memory "just in case." I would've been fine with 24 gigs on my MacBook Pro, but I got 48.
- ksidisnidjsdj 9mo ago
  [dead]
- downrightmike 9mo ago
  mr money bags over here
  - icedchai 8mo ago
    Oh yeah. I should've gone for a M4 Max w/128 gigs.

mfro 9mo ago

They did provide OS X Server at one time, but the market just wasn't there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Server https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Server

awakeasleep 9mo ago
Not very useful context considering that was before iOS development took off
- Jtsummers 9mo ago
  > that was before iOS development took off It was offered through the 2010s, iOS development had taken off by then, and the last release was in 2021.
  - daedrdev 9mo ago
    In fact the number of unique apps available on IOS has declined since the 2010s
- kergonath 9mo ago
  I am not sure iOS popularity would justify macOS as a server. What would be the use case? It's not app development; that is done just fine on the standard desktop macOS. It's not backend; that is done just fine on Linux servers, even in Swift if that's your thing.
  - saagarjha 9mo ago
    Builds
    - kergonath 9mo ago
      You don't need any feature from the old server OS for this, though. You just need your workstation to be on a network.
      - saagarjha 9mo ago
        A network connected to what
      - yjftsjthsd-h 9mo ago

kylehotchkiss 9mo ago

Those Mac minis are a pain in the ass of a server box that auto-enable FileVault after annual releases, and getting LaunchDaemons just right compared to a Linux OS feels like perpetual iterations. trying to figure out why my apache didn't start after the last reboot. Oh, must have been the Mac log rotator messing with the file permissions again It's a shame, because I love how efficiently MacOS runs and the form factor/design language of a Mac mini is not something I feel the need to hide in a dark corner You'll have to leave virtual desktop enabled, and will definitely be using it semi-regularly aside SSH

philistine 8mo ago
I use LingonX to setup which apps and scripts run when. Never had a problem.

crazygringo 9mo ago

> Those mac minis make a great little server box but losing 8GB to hundreds of processes It doesn't matter because all the extra stuff just goes to swap. And you can't disable virtual memory anyways. So in the end you're not really losing anything. Those hundreds of processes are ultimately basically mostly just using up a little bit of your SSD, not your RAM, so it's not a concern.

saagarjha 9mo ago
They’re not in swap if those processes wake up to do things
- crazygringo 9mo ago
  Yeah but they mostly barely do, and only the memory they actually access gets used, as opposed to everything they've allocated. You can observe the actual aggregate usage in Activity Monitor. This is why it's no problem at all to run something actively using 10-12 GB of memory on a 16 GB Mac.

curt15 9mo ago

What sort of applications would benefit from MacOS instead of Linux as a headless server OS?

deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]

wrxd 9mo ago

What would you use it for? To run Docker containers that rely on a Linux VM anyway?

wcfields 8mo ago
Can speak for someone who managed a racked [1] Mac Mini racked as a server in 2015~2018: * Profile Manager / MDM * Caching server for OS updates * Thunderbolt connection to a PCIe RAID HBA for a JBOD for NAS file sharing All these things/use cases now are depreciated, MDM via JAMF in the cloud, internet is fast enough that caching OS updates isn't necessary, and NAS's are much better suited. [1] https://www.sonnettech.com/product/legacyproducts/xmacminiserver_prevgen.html https://www.sonnettech.com/product/legacyproducts/xmacminise...

a3w 9mo ago

I thought a minimal darwin distro exists, giving you headless macos?

jajuuka 8mo ago

They make that, but they don't offer it to anyone to my knowledge. https://www.tomshardware.com/desktops/servers/apples-houston-built-ai-servers-now-shipping https://www.tomshardware.com/desktops/servers/apples-houston...