4 ms·

Everything is a trade-off. Farmers have a lot of influence in the EU. Personally, I think they are already too dominant, for historic reasons. And yes, I get t

Everything is a trade-off. Farmers have a lot of influence in the EU. Personally, I think they are already too dominant, for historic reasons. And yes, I get that food is important. Maybe the answer would be to unburden them from European regulations, which are pretty onerous. The few people active in agriculture I know complain about insane paper wars with authorities all the time. One farmer I know got a hefty fine for building an impromptu shed for extra kids that were born beyond the expected count. Why are we doing this to ourselves, to 'secure our food'?

joe_mamba 9mo ago
>for historic reasons Yes. The need to feed one's self and family is pretty historically important going back since we were primordial organisms to medieval times when if peasants didn't have food they'd riot and behead the king. >European regulations, which are pretty onerous. Onerous regulations that seek to prevent ... checks notes ... the use of slave labor and chemicals that damage human health and the environment. But sure, let's bypass all that and import food from countries that use slave labor and toxic pesticides while the EU virtue signals on Twatter how their mission is protecting humans from racism and exploitation and saving the environment, but apparently apart from those in countries where we import our food from, there they can do whatever exploitation they want as long as they give us cheap stuff. It's not hypocritical at all. Definitely not gonna bite us in the ass in 10+ years time when the leader of one of those countries with a shaky track record on democracy and human rights, decides to weaponize our food dependence on them to gain some advantages or just mow down some more the Amazon for profit while killing the indigenous, and all the EU is gonna do is write a sternly worded X post about "carefully monitoring the situation" at best, or at worst turn a blind eye and pretend a genocide isn't happening, just like they did with Azerbaijan's bombing of Nagorno-Karabakh because they were now dependent on Azerbaijani gas after giving up on Russian gas in 2022. Stupid EU regulations or not, giving up sovereignty on energy and food supply to third parties is bad idea all of the time, because it's guaranteed to be weaponized against you at some point. >One farmer I know got a hefty fine for building an impromptu shed for extra kids that were born beyond the expected count. Sounds like a local council, conty or national issue to me, not an EU issue.
- izacus 9mo ago
  I don't know what you're arguing about here because the farmers in EU are aggressively fighting against regulation to curtail chemicals, environmental controls and minimum healthy food quality mandates.
  - joe_mamba 9mo ago
    Yes, and WHY are they doing that? Could it be because they can't fairly compete against imported products from countries where farmers DON'T have those regulations?
- inglor_cz 9mo ago
  "The need to feed one's self and family is pretty historically important " So is, say, the need to defend yourself, but would you be happy about the military holding the same amount of de-facto power in the EU as the farmers do? Or would you consider it excessive? "the use of slave labor and chemicals that damage human health and the environment." So, there is no unnecessary regulation in your view? All of them are very virtuous and protect us all against horrible things? And as a consequence, the more, the better? If so, how come that their level can vary from country A to country B and yet country B doesn't suffer an epidemic of grisly deaths? Nope, not all regulations are necessary and not every one of them is virtuous and good. Some are just a byproduct of the office needing to show some activity and keeping their budget. "Sounds like a local council issue to me, not an EU issue." Because you are uninformed. She wasn't fined by the local council, which DGAF about an improvised shed with no fixed foundation. She was fined by authorities overseeing agricultural regulations, because that shed meant that she exceeded the allowed extent of her facilities for goats by half a square meter. (Five square feet for USians.)
  - joe_mamba 9mo ago
    >So, there is no unnecessary regulation in your view? Why are you making it sound like the issue is binary? >Some are just a byproduct of the office needing to show some activity and keeping their budget. Agree. >She was fined by authorities overseeing agricultural regulations Were those authorities doing the inspection from the EU or the local nation?

joe_mamba 9mo ago

>for historic reasons Yes. The need to feed one's self and family is pretty historically important going back since we were primordial organisms to medieval times when if peasants didn't have food they'd riot and behead the king. >European regulations, which are pretty onerous. Onerous regulations that seek to prevent ... checks notes ... the use of slave labor and chemicals that damage human health and the environment. But sure, let's bypass all that and import food from countries that use slave labor and toxic pesticides while the EU virtue signals on Twatter how their mission is protecting humans from racism and exploitation and saving the environment, but apparently apart from those in countries where we import our food from, there they can do whatever exploitation they want as long as they give us cheap stuff. It's not hypocritical at all. Definitely not gonna bite us in the ass in 10+ years time when the leader of one of those countries with a shaky track record on democracy and human rights, decides to weaponize our food dependence on them to gain some advantages or just mow down some more the Amazon for profit while killing the indigenous, and all the EU is gonna do is write a sternly worded X post about "carefully monitoring the situation" at best, or at worst turn a blind eye and pretend a genocide isn't happening, just like they did with Azerbaijan's bombing of Nagorno-Karabakh because they were now dependent on Azerbaijani gas after giving up on Russian gas in 2022. Stupid EU regulations or not, giving up sovereignty on energy and food supply to third parties is bad idea all of the time, because it's guaranteed to be weaponized against you at some point. >One farmer I know got a hefty fine for building an impromptu shed for extra kids that were born beyond the expected count. Sounds like a local council, conty or national issue to me, not an EU issue.

izacus 9mo ago
I don't know what you're arguing about here because the farmers in EU are aggressively fighting against regulation to curtail chemicals, environmental controls and minimum healthy food quality mandates.
- joe_mamba 9mo ago
  Yes, and WHY are they doing that? Could it be because they can't fairly compete against imported products from countries where farmers DON'T have those regulations?
inglor_cz 9mo ago
"The need to feed one's self and family is pretty historically important " So is, say, the need to defend yourself, but would you be happy about the military holding the same amount of de-facto power in the EU as the farmers do? Or would you consider it excessive? "the use of slave labor and chemicals that damage human health and the environment." So, there is no unnecessary regulation in your view? All of them are very virtuous and protect us all against horrible things? And as a consequence, the more, the better? If so, how come that their level can vary from country A to country B and yet country B doesn't suffer an epidemic of grisly deaths? Nope, not all regulations are necessary and not every one of them is virtuous and good. Some are just a byproduct of the office needing to show some activity and keeping their budget. "Sounds like a local council issue to me, not an EU issue." Because you are uninformed. She wasn't fined by the local council, which DGAF about an improvised shed with no fixed foundation. She was fined by authorities overseeing agricultural regulations, because that shed meant that she exceeded the allowed extent of her facilities for goats by half a square meter. (Five square feet for USians.)
- joe_mamba 9mo ago
  >So, there is no unnecessary regulation in your view? Why are you making it sound like the issue is binary? >Some are just a byproduct of the office needing to show some activity and keeping their budget. Agree. >She was fined by authorities overseeing agricultural regulations Were those authorities doing the inspection from the EU or the local nation?