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The American people had two options in November: - Kamala Harris, a terribly unqualified candidate who was appointed by the Democratic Party without a primary

The American people had two options in November: - Kamala Harris, a terribly unqualified candidate who was appointed by the Democratic Party without a primary vote, who couldn’t clearly communicate basic policy positions, and who served as “the border czar” while the Biden administration dismantled the border protection agency and ushered in almost four years of a de facto open Southern border, which was very unpopular with most voters. - Donald Trump, who was a known quantity, who riled people up and said things that were offensive, but didn’t actually do anything catastrophic in his first term and was mostly harmless by virtue of being ineffective. These were far and away the worst two candidates of my lifetime. But among the Americans who voted for Trump, I doubt many expected the administration to simultaneously be this much more unhinged and impactful a second time around.

JumpCrisscross 9mo ago
> Both were bad options. Few expected a Trump administration would simultaneously be this unhinged and impactful this time around He led an insurrection against our Constitution. He went along with folks who legitimately aimed to murder Senators. Venezuela voted for Chavez. Gaza for Hamas. America for Trump.
- PlanksVariable 9mo ago
  “He led an insurrection against our Constitution” is extremely hyperbolic.
  - JumpCrisscross 9mo ago
    > Rome was destroyed, Greece was destroyed, Persia was destroyed, Spain was destroyed The Electoral College is a Constitutional body. The Vice President, in his electoral duties, a Constitutional officer. These are limited roles with specific aims and they were directly, explicitly and violently attacked. The men who called for hanging the Vice President never repented and were pardoned.
    - deleted 9mo ago
      [deleted]
  - TOMDM 9mo ago
    The fact that Trump was even allowed to run for another election is the clearest sign that he has not and likely never will be held to account for his flagrant disregard for Democracy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_fake_electors_plot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_fake_electors_plot > The Trump fake electors plot was an attempt by U.S. president Donald Trump and associates to have him remain in power after losing the 2020 United States presidential election. After the results of the election determined Trump had lost, he, his associates, and Republican Party officials in seven battleground states – Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin[1] – devised a scheme to submit fraudulent certificates of ascertainment to falsely claim Trump had won the Electoral College vote in crucial states. The plot was one of Trump and his associates' attempts to overturn the 2020 United States presidential election.
    - munksbeer 9mo ago
      Is that all accurate? How is this not bigger news? I'm not from the US, but this seems unreal.
      - UncleMeat 9mo ago
        Yes it is accurate. By the time we had the full details the republican party had coalesced behind still supporting Trump. People either claim that Trump did win the election and he was fighting back or insist that the fake electors plot didn't really exist and this was all just the Biden administration weaponizing the DOJ against Trump as revenge. The Supreme Court stepped in twice to protect Trump. Colorado tried to remove him from the ballot based on a clause in the 14th amendment that makes people who have engaged in insurrection ineligible for holding federal office. The Supreme Court said that doing this requires congressional action, which was controlled by the GOP at the time. The Supreme Court also stepped in to stop the federal prosecution of Trump for this crime, finding that most (or all) of the actions he took were protected under a new doctrine of presidential criminal immunity.
  - dashundchen 9mo ago
    You are delusional if you think January 6th was not an insurrection. Anyone who willingly denies the reality of what happened that day is nothing more than a traitor to this country. Trump organized riled up a mob that called for his own vice president to be hanged for certifying his own legitimate election loss. His own campaign was involved with groups that led the breach of the Capitol, resulting in the death of many police officers, where the insurrectionists got within mere feet of our legally elected officials. He called the Secretary of State in Georgia telling him needed to "find votes" so that he could claim he won. Donald Trump tried to destroy American democracy with a violent mob that day. Denying the legitimate voice and vote of tens of millions of people for his own sick gain. He is destroying democracy again, but you cannot deny January 6th was his doing.
    - JumpCrisscross 9mo ago
      > Anyone who willingly denies the reality of what happened that day is nothing more than a traitor to this country No they’re not.
      - willmarch 9mo ago
        They most certainly are.
    - mlrtime 9mo ago
      >You are delusional if you think January 6th was not an insurrection. Anyone who willingly denies the reality of what happened that day is nothing more than a traitor to this country. Was it a "insurrection", yes, sure. Was it lead by Trump to try and take the presidency through a coup, no. Does he have responsibility in the actions of the people that came their by what he said? Maybe, that is for a court to decide that we'll probably never see.
  - lovich 9mo ago
    I normally disagree with `JumpCrissCross but he’s right on calling it an insurrection. And I am not referring to the assault on the capitol, I am referring to the false slates of electors.
timmytokyo 9mo ago
You're glossing over January 6. There are few things more damning of the American electorate than their willingness to vote for a man who tried to use a coup to stay in power. The rest of the world sees it. And they'd be stupid to trust that Americans wouldn't do something so stupid again.
- PlanksVariable 9mo ago
  You could make a case that January 6th was a catastrophe. But a Trump-led coup? That’s quite a reach. I’m sure Trump got a thrill from the show of support. But I don’t believe even Trump thought those protestors could stage a successful a coup and overthrow the U.S. government. It’s fantasy.
  - netsharc 9mo ago
    The way Trump thinks the world works, why the hell not? He thinks the government of Norway is the one who decides who gets the Nobel Peace Prize... He thinks he ended 8 wars (ok this might be him talking out of his ass, as usual, but do we know that for sure?)
  - Timon3 9mo ago
    Nobody thinks that the Trump supporters that stormed the capital could have overthrown the government. The coup attempt was much simpler - Trump wanted his supporters to interrupt the certification so the states could use alternative electors to circumvent the results of the election.
  - UncleMeat 9mo ago
    Trump tried to get false electors to be used for counting the vote, changing the outcome the election by having states like Georgia and Pennsylvania vote as if Trump had won these states. Because he was too incompetent to organize this quickly he needed to delay the certification on January 6th, which the mob did accomplish. He just couldn't get a few key people on board with this. What exactly is this if not a coup?
  - myvoiceismypass 9mo ago
rjrjrjrj 9mo ago
“known quantity”: convicted criminal, election denier, adjudicated rapist, serial liar
- nullocator 9mo ago
  You must keep in mind that a good portion of U.S. citizens can't even read, and have similar deficiencies around critical thinking. Couple this with a purpose built media landscape and social media slop that are actively trying to convince you that Trump is the savior of the republic, a man who shits gold, the perfect physical specimen 100% of the time; and it should not be too surprising that he managed to get elected, especially against weak or ill-timed candidates. The right wing propaganda machine works very very well, look how well they've absolutely ingratiated things like trans issues into the political zeitgeist in just a hand full of years, and strongly coupled them with the Democratic brand. The Democrats have a huge problem in that they are effectively as or more unpopular than Trump. They've also lacked real leadership for 10 years.
  - rjrjrjrj 9mo ago
    I see a lot of rationalizations that blame the Democrats: but Kamala or but Biden's age or whatever. But the Republican party had options too, and they picked the criminal.

JumpCrisscross 9mo ago

> Both were bad options. Few expected a Trump administration would simultaneously be this unhinged and impactful this time around He led an insurrection against our Constitution. He went along with folks who legitimately aimed to murder Senators. Venezuela voted for Chavez. Gaza for Hamas. America for Trump.

PlanksVariable 9mo ago
“He led an insurrection against our Constitution” is extremely hyperbolic.
- JumpCrisscross 9mo ago
  > Rome was destroyed, Greece was destroyed, Persia was destroyed, Spain was destroyed The Electoral College is a Constitutional body. The Vice President, in his electoral duties, a Constitutional officer. These are limited roles with specific aims and they were directly, explicitly and violently attacked. The men who called for hanging the Vice President never repented and were pardoned.
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
- TOMDM 9mo ago
  The fact that Trump was even allowed to run for another election is the clearest sign that he has not and likely never will be held to account for his flagrant disregard for Democracy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_fake_electors_plot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_fake_electors_plot > The Trump fake electors plot was an attempt by U.S. president Donald Trump and associates to have him remain in power after losing the 2020 United States presidential election. After the results of the election determined Trump had lost, he, his associates, and Republican Party officials in seven battleground states – Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin[1] – devised a scheme to submit fraudulent certificates of ascertainment to falsely claim Trump had won the Electoral College vote in crucial states. The plot was one of Trump and his associates' attempts to overturn the 2020 United States presidential election.
  - munksbeer 9mo ago
    Is that all accurate? How is this not bigger news? I'm not from the US, but this seems unreal.
    - UncleMeat 9mo ago
      Yes it is accurate. By the time we had the full details the republican party had coalesced behind still supporting Trump. People either claim that Trump did win the election and he was fighting back or insist that the fake electors plot didn't really exist and this was all just the Biden administration weaponizing the DOJ against Trump as revenge. The Supreme Court stepped in twice to protect Trump. Colorado tried to remove him from the ballot based on a clause in the 14th amendment that makes people who have engaged in insurrection ineligible for holding federal office. The Supreme Court said that doing this requires congressional action, which was controlled by the GOP at the time. The Supreme Court also stepped in to stop the federal prosecution of Trump for this crime, finding that most (or all) of the actions he took were protected under a new doctrine of presidential criminal immunity.
- dashundchen 9mo ago
  You are delusional if you think January 6th was not an insurrection. Anyone who willingly denies the reality of what happened that day is nothing more than a traitor to this country. Trump organized riled up a mob that called for his own vice president to be hanged for certifying his own legitimate election loss. His own campaign was involved with groups that led the breach of the Capitol, resulting in the death of many police officers, where the insurrectionists got within mere feet of our legally elected officials. He called the Secretary of State in Georgia telling him needed to "find votes" so that he could claim he won. Donald Trump tried to destroy American democracy with a violent mob that day. Denying the legitimate voice and vote of tens of millions of people for his own sick gain. He is destroying democracy again, but you cannot deny January 6th was his doing.
  - JumpCrisscross 9mo ago
    > Anyone who willingly denies the reality of what happened that day is nothing more than a traitor to this country No they’re not.
    - willmarch 9mo ago
      They most certainly are.
  - mlrtime 9mo ago
    >You are delusional if you think January 6th was not an insurrection. Anyone who willingly denies the reality of what happened that day is nothing more than a traitor to this country. Was it a "insurrection", yes, sure. Was it lead by Trump to try and take the presidency through a coup, no. Does he have responsibility in the actions of the people that came their by what he said? Maybe, that is for a court to decide that we'll probably never see.
- lovich 9mo ago
  I normally disagree with `JumpCrissCross but he’s right on calling it an insurrection. And I am not referring to the assault on the capitol, I am referring to the false slates of electors.

timmytokyo 9mo ago

You're glossing over January 6. There are few things more damning of the American electorate than their willingness to vote for a man who tried to use a coup to stay in power. The rest of the world sees it. And they'd be stupid to trust that Americans wouldn't do something so stupid again.

PlanksVariable 9mo ago
You could make a case that January 6th was a catastrophe. But a Trump-led coup? That’s quite a reach. I’m sure Trump got a thrill from the show of support. But I don’t believe even Trump thought those protestors could stage a successful a coup and overthrow the U.S. government. It’s fantasy.
- netsharc 9mo ago
  The way Trump thinks the world works, why the hell not? He thinks the government of Norway is the one who decides who gets the Nobel Peace Prize... He thinks he ended 8 wars (ok this might be him talking out of his ass, as usual, but do we know that for sure?)
- Timon3 9mo ago
  Nobody thinks that the Trump supporters that stormed the capital could have overthrown the government. The coup attempt was much simpler - Trump wanted his supporters to interrupt the certification so the states could use alternative electors to circumvent the results of the election.
- UncleMeat 9mo ago
  Trump tried to get false electors to be used for counting the vote, changing the outcome the election by having states like Georgia and Pennsylvania vote as if Trump had won these states. Because he was too incompetent to organize this quickly he needed to delay the certification on January 6th, which the mob did accomplish. He just couldn't get a few key people on board with this. What exactly is this if not a coup?
- myvoiceismypass 9mo ago

rjrjrjrj 9mo ago

“known quantity”: convicted criminal, election denier, adjudicated rapist, serial liar

nullocator 9mo ago
You must keep in mind that a good portion of U.S. citizens can't even read, and have similar deficiencies around critical thinking. Couple this with a purpose built media landscape and social media slop that are actively trying to convince you that Trump is the savior of the republic, a man who shits gold, the perfect physical specimen 100% of the time; and it should not be too surprising that he managed to get elected, especially against weak or ill-timed candidates. The right wing propaganda machine works very very well, look how well they've absolutely ingratiated things like trans issues into the political zeitgeist in just a hand full of years, and strongly coupled them with the Democratic brand. The Democrats have a huge problem in that they are effectively as or more unpopular than Trump. They've also lacked real leadership for 10 years.
- rjrjrjrj 9mo ago
  I see a lot of rationalizations that blame the Democrats: but Kamala or but Biden's age or whatever. But the Republican party had options too, and they picked the criminal.