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Interestingly, there seems to be more good will and amiable vibes between EU nationalities than within the US even. Even being enemies for a thousand years, I d
by pendenthistory 9mo ago
Interestingly, there seems to be more good will and amiable vibes between EU nationalities than within the US even. Even being enemies for a thousand years, I don't doubt that Swedish and Danish men would go to war for one another, or French and German. It's complicated yes, but the continent is more unified in spirit than it may seem to an outsider.
- lpcvoid 9mo agoGerman here: I'd go to war (and likely will, with how it's looking currently) for any country that shares our values and is an ally or friend, that's being attacked by an evil force such as russia. And that of course includes my french brothers to the west.
- samiv 9mo agoFinnish reservist here in Germany. Ready to go. Prost!
- cft 9mo agoAmerican expat here in Spain. I do 11 pull-ups every two days and run 7 miles uphill. Ready to go! Salud!
- samiv 9mo agoSee you on the battlefield.
- decremental 9mo ago[dead]
- card_zero 9mo agoRarely have prime numbers been so macho.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- lpcvoid 9mo agoProst, my friend. May we never have to meet.
- comonoid 9mo ago... such as usa?
- lpcvoid 9mo agoI have many moral problems with that scenario. I used to live in the US a long time ago. The US is sick; there's a mad king at the top who doesn't have the well being of the nation in his interest, and he is driving the world towards war with every passing day while dividing his own people. War with the US isn't a clear cut "good vs evil" situation as the EU vs russia would be, it would be a utter tragedy, not wanted by neither the populace of the EU, nor the US. That said, yes, I would defend Europe against the US, even though I think that fight would be short, deadly and decisive if it really came down to it. What a fucked up world we live in, just because idiots voted for a convicted felon.
- jyounker 9mo agoThe rot is much deeper. Donald Trump was impeached twice, and both times the Republicans voted to acquit him.
- gowld 9mo agoI don't know why you believe that a decades-long strict dictatorship like Russia has more democratic support for its "evil" government than a country whose leader was elected just 1 year ago with approximately 50% of the vote.
- lpcvoid 9mo agoRussians are lining up to go to war under the promise of money, around 30k a month last time I checked. Americans not so much, in particular not against Europeans. It's different in my view.
- ubertaco 9mo agoAs an American, a sizable number of Americans are lining up to join ICE under the promise of money. And also, our whole military recruitment strategy here outside of drafts has been "the GI bill" – paid tuition in exchange for lining up to go to war. I don't know that the gap in morals is as wide as you think.
- blell 9mo agoSpanish here: I wouldn't go to war even for my own country, imagine for the likes of France or Germany.
- lpcvoid 9mo ago80 years ago we were the bad guys, and far more brave people than me, from other countries, stepped up to curb the evil. This time us Germans need to be on the right side.
- C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 9mo ago> This time us Germans need to be on the right side Your country is the second largest weapons exporter to Israel.
- midlander 9mo ago[flagged]
- ahmeneeroe-v2 9mo ago[flagged]
- modzu 9mo agomost humans share the same core values. values antithetical to war.
- yodsanklai 9mo agoThanks German brother :) I think our main issue in Europe is the lack of a common language. It makes it harder to build strong ties and realize how close our values are.
- ffsm8 9mo agoAgreed, there is always this little story to remind us of our unity - at least from the perspective of the draftees/workers back in ww1, where everyone was basically forced to fight each other by the elites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce
- lpcvoid 9mo agoWhich is why I long for the day where a European federation supersedes the weak and fragmented national states we have now. Adopting English as legal secondary language in every EU member state would maybe be a good first step.
- blackoil 9mo agoVat hapened tu ze komon English I got mail abaut 20 yers ago?
- coryrc 9mo agoAre you posting from Ukraine?
- SanjayMehta 9mo agoIf he is, it won't be for very long. The most visible merc was a retired US colonel, he ran off home within weeks, got drunk on the War on The Rocks podcast and revealed the corruption and depravity of the "good guys."
- ahmeneeroe-v2 9mo agoThat's pretty caveated. Not exactly a ringing war cry Shares values AND Ally AND Being attacked AND Attacker is evil I think you'll continue to be safe posting on HN
- lpcvoid 9mo agoPeople place individual, stringent conditions on life threatening responses? Keep going, you're on to something there.
- ahmeneeroe-v2 9mo agoVery funny you got me there. I think you’ll find that threats of violence (which is what your comment is) need to be much more unhinged to be effective deterrents. Remember you’re warning off barbarians (eg us Americans or the Russians), not civilized folk.
- Saline9515 9mo agoYou should define what "our values" is when making such bold statements.
- lpcvoid 9mo agoFreedom of speech, democratically elected representatives, protection of minorities, religious freedom, to name a few. I can already hear people storming out of the woods, ready to write how the EU itself is undemocratic, or how free speech isn't real in western European countries. I disagree with you.
- SanjayMehta 9mo agoJacques Baud, Alina Lipp, Thomas Röper, Nathalie Yamb, Xavier Moreau disagree with you. And unlike you, some random anonymous poster on this polite version of Reddit, everyone knows what they do.
- lpcvoid 9mo agoThey are pro russian propaganda mouthpieces and can go fuck themselves. Specially Alina Lipp, may she have fun in her beloved russia.
- SanjayMehta 9mo agoHave you ever been to Russia or The Ukraine? Have you ever even met anyone from either country?
- lpcvoid 9mo agoI know both people from Kiev, and people who fled russia in late 2022. I don't care for your pro-russian worldview. And I know you do it on purpose, but it's "Ukraine", and not "the Ukraine". It's a sovereign state, not a russian oblast like you have been taught by the Kremlin.
- Saline9515 9mo ago
- jll29 9mo agoThe great minds that - after WWII - built the new Europe had in mind that there should never be war again, which is best realized when former enemies become friends and closer bonds are established at multiple levels: politically, economically, culturally (unions, trading exchanges, visits/open borders/teaching common European values in schools). There is a strong political and cultural foundation in geographic Europe for the political EU: some exemplary giants/EU co-architects: Jean Monnet/Robert Schuman European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) Schuman Declaration (1950) [It is only right that the R. Schuman Roundabout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Schuman_Roundabout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Schuman_Roundabout Rue houses the European quarter in Brussels.] Konrad Adenauer Promoted reconciliation with France pro-European Alcide De Gasperi Integrated Italy into Western Europe Advocated supranational institutions Paul-Henri Spaak institutional designer, key role in the Treaties of Rome (1957) helped design the European Economic Community (EEC) Advocated supranational institutions Walter Hallstein 1st President, European Commission. Built EC into powerful, independent institution Championed the supremacy of European law Altiero Spinelli Wrote the Ventotene Manifesto (while imprisoned by Fascists) Advocated a federal Europe Winston Churchill A paradoxical but crucial figure: called for a “United States of Europe” (1946 speech) Influenced Europe’s post-war direction despite UK distance François Mitterrand Drove Maastricht Treaty with Helmut Kohl Pushed for the € Symbolized Franco-German partnership Helmut Kohl Franco-German friendship exemplified by Mitterand-Kohl personal friendship "Architect of modern Europe" German reunification Key figure behind the EU and monetary union It's ironic that the name "U.S.E." (United States of Europe) was first proposed by a Brit, alas a smart one, and I'm sure Sir Winston Churchill would have had the oratory abilities to convince his countrymen that his idea had merit, but he did not live to see it. The Federation of Europe or United States of Europe is the logical end-point of the joint vision of all these foundational leaders.
- joe_mamba 9mo ago>Franco-German friendship exemplified by Mitterand-Kohl personal friendship Ironic to call this a "friendship", when Mitterand along with Thatcher were working behind the scenes with the soviets to sabotage and stop Kohl's reunification of Germany. It was anything but a friendship, but more of a concession. Politics is full of such examples that look friendly to the public, but hide a lot of sabotage and back stabbings in the background. In fact, the later is the norm in politics.
- Beretta_Vexee 9mo agoFrench here: If we can send French soldiers to fight and die in Mali for years, only to end up with a military junta that prefers the Russian Africakorps, I think we're ready to send our soldiers to die defending a European ally. Plus, with global warming, this may be the last chance for the Alpine hunters to shine.
- samiv 9mo agoI think the people on this continent have a lot more in common than they might first realize. We certainly have our own cultures and language but beyond that I think we all share a certain European heritage, core culture and values. There's a certain stigma especially in Germany caused by the WW2 and the the leadership has been complacent to rely on Bretton Woods agreement. But as we're seeing now the geopolitics are doing a 180 degree turnaround and given these circumstances I expect sooner or later Europe will collectively understand the utmost importance to com together and to regrow and redevelop the military to support independence and not having to bow down to any master in the East or int he West.
- kaffekaka 9mo agoAbsolutely. "Finlands sak är vår." Finland's problem is our problem, same for Denmark and Norway. We must stand together, we have no choice.