4 ms·

This is precisely it. People in the US have been living with the insanity of Trump for so long that they have become numb to it, and don't realize just how cra

This is precisely it. People in the US have been living with the insanity of Trump for so long that they have become numb to it, and don't realize just how crazy and out of bounds every day is now. We continue on, because we have to, but it's hard to reevaluate everything every single day because it's so crazy. Europe and the rest of the world are making completely rational decisions in response to the utter self-destructive actions taking place by the entire US political system right now. The US population has been cowed into complacence and numbness, but the rest of the world has not yet, and will take appropriate action.

jonathanstrange 9mo ago
What we witness seems to be a lack of control due to a vicious feedback loop that eliminates dissenters and reasonable, moderate people from positions of power. The longer it stays active, the worse it becomes. In other authoritarian systems this is not so noticeable because their leaders act more rationally to begin with, although they tend to lose their grip on reality in the long run, too.
- epistasis 9mo ago
  That's definitely going on. There's also something that I've heard called "reactionary centrism:" a feedback loop of people who think that truth lies in the middle between the two extremes, and also that assumes that no mainstream position in a political faction can itself be the "extreme." And that if they find that one political faction is doing something that seems extreme to them, that in the interests of fairness and centrism, they must start considering something that the other political faction does as equally extreme. A lot of pundits that were center-left in past years fall into this trap, and normalize extremely right-wing positions these days because of it. They are stuck in an media and information environment of politics and, lacking many core values to guide them, they navigate to the middle of the media that they consume, assuming that the truth will be there in the middle just like it was in the past.
  - jacquesm 9mo ago
    That's a very astute observation, thank you.
  - bluGill 9mo ago
    Right vs left makes the assumption there are two sides / options. I have long thought that the 'left' was too extreem socialist - that doesn't mean I think current 'right' is any better.
    - Nevermark 9mo ago
      The far right and left are always going to be homes for extremists, by definition. And also practicality. Extreme people are highly motivated to push their agenda, and that requires a party. They adapt and find a way to participate, one way or another. Often simply by ramping up awareness of the opponent party's inevitable extremes. The real question is: how do the moderates in a party operate, and are they currently tolerated and reasonably well represented within the party. (I am using extreme here to mean a lack of operating in objective reality, or a strong will to divide who "matters" from who doesn't. Usually they go together.)
      - Braxton1980 9mo ago
        I think it's also matter what percentage of each party you would consider extreme, and I realize that's subjective
    - pjc50 9mo ago
      Would Kamala have invaded Greenland? No, of course not, and you know it. Plenty of people wouldn't even count her as "left".
      - bluGill 9mo ago
        you miss the point. The two sides are different they are not all viewpoints though.
    - 9mo ago
everyone 9mo ago
The people of the USA really remind me of the people of Russia: totally depoliticized. I think in the USA many people are really focused on a pointless culture war yet aren't politically active at all.
- epistasis 9mo ago
  I think it's not so much the people that have been Russified as the institutions themselves. The media, big law firms, big corporations, have all given in to bullying and handed their power over to the authoritarian. Universities are on the cusp of doing so too. Even the Democratic Party has leadership so weak that in the current environment they will only talk about affordability and healthcare. The media the public consumes only gives them culture war BS to work with, though. It started with Fox News, and that eventually cowed the rest of the media to give in to Fox News framing on every topic, since Fox News was so successful at winning eyeballs.
  - watwut 9mo ago
    > The media, big law firms, big corporations, have all given in to bullying and handed their power over to the authoritarian The media were supporting and whitewashing republicans for years now. For years now, they were full of bad faith false equivalencies. Hysteria whenever someone says true but negative things about conservatives. Somehow, only rural people count as real Americans, people in cities dont. It was important to "challenge" liberals while it was equally important to scold anyone who says something negative about republicans. Republicans must not be challenged, their actions need to be painted in the best possible light. > big corporations Big corporations supported Trump, because they thought he will get rid of pesky rules that prevents them from harming more people. They like when the law allows them to harm the environment, when it facilitates frauds committed by big companies. > big law firms Is there anything to suggest they were opposed?
  - Braxton1980 9mo ago
    >Even the Democratic Party has leadership so weak that in the current environment they will only talk about affordability and healthcare. As opposed to what? The majority of people took away their power either by not voting for them or not voting at all. Multiple universities have refused Trump's demands and Newsom even threatened universities in his state if they went along with it. Democrats speak out about everything Trump is doing. They also worked with some Republicans recently on bills that Trump is against. So please tell me how they are at fault? Because it seems they are at fault when they are in power and they are at fault for Republicans when they are in power. You're also generalizing the media. It's nearly impossible they are equally manipulative. Since no political party will be perfect we should vote for the best option
catlover76 9mo ago
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jonathanstrange 9mo ago

What we witness seems to be a lack of control due to a vicious feedback loop that eliminates dissenters and reasonable, moderate people from positions of power. The longer it stays active, the worse it becomes. In other authoritarian systems this is not so noticeable because their leaders act more rationally to begin with, although they tend to lose their grip on reality in the long run, too.

epistasis 9mo ago
That's definitely going on. There's also something that I've heard called "reactionary centrism:" a feedback loop of people who think that truth lies in the middle between the two extremes, and also that assumes that no mainstream position in a political faction can itself be the "extreme." And that if they find that one political faction is doing something that seems extreme to them, that in the interests of fairness and centrism, they must start considering something that the other political faction does as equally extreme. A lot of pundits that were center-left in past years fall into this trap, and normalize extremely right-wing positions these days because of it. They are stuck in an media and information environment of politics and, lacking many core values to guide them, they navigate to the middle of the media that they consume, assuming that the truth will be there in the middle just like it was in the past.
- jacquesm 9mo ago
  That's a very astute observation, thank you.
- bluGill 9mo ago
  Right vs left makes the assumption there are two sides / options. I have long thought that the 'left' was too extreem socialist - that doesn't mean I think current 'right' is any better.
  - Nevermark 9mo ago
    The far right and left are always going to be homes for extremists, by definition. And also practicality. Extreme people are highly motivated to push their agenda, and that requires a party. They adapt and find a way to participate, one way or another. Often simply by ramping up awareness of the opponent party's inevitable extremes. The real question is: how do the moderates in a party operate, and are they currently tolerated and reasonably well represented within the party. (I am using extreme here to mean a lack of operating in objective reality, or a strong will to divide who "matters" from who doesn't. Usually they go together.)
    - Braxton1980 9mo ago
      I think it's also matter what percentage of each party you would consider extreme, and I realize that's subjective
  - pjc50 9mo ago
    Would Kamala have invaded Greenland? No, of course not, and you know it. Plenty of people wouldn't even count her as "left".
    - bluGill 9mo ago
      you miss the point. The two sides are different they are not all viewpoints though.
  - 9mo ago

everyone 9mo ago

The people of the USA really remind me of the people of Russia: totally depoliticized. I think in the USA many people are really focused on a pointless culture war yet aren't politically active at all.

epistasis 9mo ago
I think it's not so much the people that have been Russified as the institutions themselves. The media, big law firms, big corporations, have all given in to bullying and handed their power over to the authoritarian. Universities are on the cusp of doing so too. Even the Democratic Party has leadership so weak that in the current environment they will only talk about affordability and healthcare. The media the public consumes only gives them culture war BS to work with, though. It started with Fox News, and that eventually cowed the rest of the media to give in to Fox News framing on every topic, since Fox News was so successful at winning eyeballs.
- watwut 9mo ago
  > The media, big law firms, big corporations, have all given in to bullying and handed their power over to the authoritarian The media were supporting and whitewashing republicans for years now. For years now, they were full of bad faith false equivalencies. Hysteria whenever someone says true but negative things about conservatives. Somehow, only rural people count as real Americans, people in cities dont. It was important to "challenge" liberals while it was equally important to scold anyone who says something negative about republicans. Republicans must not be challenged, their actions need to be painted in the best possible light. > big corporations Big corporations supported Trump, because they thought he will get rid of pesky rules that prevents them from harming more people. They like when the law allows them to harm the environment, when it facilitates frauds committed by big companies. > big law firms Is there anything to suggest they were opposed?
- Braxton1980 9mo ago
  >Even the Democratic Party has leadership so weak that in the current environment they will only talk about affordability and healthcare. As opposed to what? The majority of people took away their power either by not voting for them or not voting at all. Multiple universities have refused Trump's demands and Newsom even threatened universities in his state if they went along with it. Democrats speak out about everything Trump is doing. They also worked with some Republicans recently on bills that Trump is against. So please tell me how they are at fault? Because it seems they are at fault when they are in power and they are at fault for Republicans when they are in power. You're also generalizing the media. It's nearly impossible they are equally manipulative. Since no political party will be perfect we should vote for the best option

catlover76 9mo ago

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