4 ms·

The EU threw all its baskets into a war it didn't need to fight, destroyed its energy independence, it's weapons, it's airdefense and huge parts of its air forc

The EU threw all its baskets into a war it didn't need to fight, destroyed its energy independence, it's weapons, it's airdefense and huge parts of its air force. I don't think they have a lot of cards to play. There an interesting analysis on whether the EUs threats on financial markets actually bear any meaning here: https://x.com/Kathleen_Tyson_/status/2013314168250675456 https://x.com/Kathleen_Tyson_/status/2013314168250675456 Edit: March 2022 peace deal that Boris Johnson sabotaged https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/06/15/world/europe/ukraine-russia-ceasefire-deal.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/06/15/world/europe/...

jacquesm 9mo ago
What nonsense. We have plenty of cards to play and if 'having cards to play' is what stood between the USA and the relationship we had - or rather that we thought we had - for the last 70 years stood for something then that should not have been a factor in the first place. This whole thing is due to one country not playing by the rulebook because they think they're big enough to fuck over the world. Guess what? No single country is big enough for that. Trump is way out of his depth when it comes to statesmanship and has replaced it with brinkmanship, that's not a valid substitute unless what you're looking for a a disaster.
cuu508 9mo ago
What war are you referring to?
jonkoops 9mo ago
It is a war we must fight now, and must continue to fight. It is a war against oppression, against autocrats squishing their population for servitude. If nobody steps up to protect Democratic values, and the freedom of the people for self-governance, it is a slippery slope to hell.
- rjzzleep 9mo ago
  If you really needed to fight, what you would have done was build a couple nuclear power plants, build some factories using Russian resources that they were giving you cheap, churn out some weapons and THEN go for war. What it did instead was watch the US blow up it's pipeline, harakiri its own nuclear power reactors, rent mobile Norwegian LNG terminals and make itself completely dependent on American weapons and Energy. This is all preformative nonsense of EU elites that despise the European public and call Trump daddy to continue riding the Eurocrat gravy train. It's actually good for Europe that this mess is coming to an end. But the price was way too high and unnecessary.
- carlosjobim 9mo ago
  What are you doing here then? Shouldn't you be in the trenches or in a factory making artillery rounds? Or who is "we"?
  - ben_w 9mo ago
    Not op, but: Paying taxes to fund an army. The EU isn't doing any direct fighting in the Russian-Ukranian war, we are however donating and selling things, and being a refuge for those who quite understandably fled in fear of their lives. Nobody's actually violated our sovreignty yet, we have no casus belli to go to war. But as the phrase the bullet cartridge is named after goes: Si vis pacem, para bellum.
    - lurk2 9mo ago
      Ukraine accepts foreign volunteers.
- lurk2 9mo ago
  > If nobody steps up to protect Democratic values, and the freedom of the people for self-governance, it is a slippery slope to hell. reply Ukraine hasn’t had an election in 7 years.
  - ajam1507 9mo ago
    Not holding elections during a war does not mean you aren't a democracy.
    - lurk2 9mo ago
      Yes it does.
      - Anamon 9mo ago
        No, it doesn't. Ukrainians have been repeatedly polled and the majority don't want to hold elections in wartime. That's democratic. Holding an election while a foreign aggressor is occupying part of your territory and terrorising its population, enabling them to suppress and manipulate their votes: that's undemocratic.

jacquesm 9mo ago

What nonsense. We have plenty of cards to play and if 'having cards to play' is what stood between the USA and the relationship we had - or rather that we thought we had - for the last 70 years stood for something then that should not have been a factor in the first place. This whole thing is due to one country not playing by the rulebook because they think they're big enough to fuck over the world. Guess what? No single country is big enough for that. Trump is way out of his depth when it comes to statesmanship and has replaced it with brinkmanship, that's not a valid substitute unless what you're looking for a a disaster.

cuu508 9mo ago

What war are you referring to?

jonkoops 9mo ago

It is a war we must fight now, and must continue to fight. It is a war against oppression, against autocrats squishing their population for servitude. If nobody steps up to protect Democratic values, and the freedom of the people for self-governance, it is a slippery slope to hell.

rjzzleep 9mo ago
If you really needed to fight, what you would have done was build a couple nuclear power plants, build some factories using Russian resources that they were giving you cheap, churn out some weapons and THEN go for war. What it did instead was watch the US blow up it's pipeline, harakiri its own nuclear power reactors, rent mobile Norwegian LNG terminals and make itself completely dependent on American weapons and Energy. This is all preformative nonsense of EU elites that despise the European public and call Trump daddy to continue riding the Eurocrat gravy train. It's actually good for Europe that this mess is coming to an end. But the price was way too high and unnecessary.
carlosjobim 9mo ago
What are you doing here then? Shouldn't you be in the trenches or in a factory making artillery rounds? Or who is "we"?
- ben_w 9mo ago
  Not op, but: Paying taxes to fund an army. The EU isn't doing any direct fighting in the Russian-Ukranian war, we are however donating and selling things, and being a refuge for those who quite understandably fled in fear of their lives. Nobody's actually violated our sovreignty yet, we have no casus belli to go to war. But as the phrase the bullet cartridge is named after goes: Si vis pacem, para bellum.
  - lurk2 9mo ago
    Ukraine accepts foreign volunteers.
lurk2 9mo ago
> If nobody steps up to protect Democratic values, and the freedom of the people for self-governance, it is a slippery slope to hell. reply Ukraine hasn’t had an election in 7 years.
- ajam1507 9mo ago
  Not holding elections during a war does not mean you aren't a democracy.
  - lurk2 9mo ago
    Yes it does.
    - Anamon 9mo ago
      No, it doesn't. Ukrainians have been repeatedly polled and the majority don't want to hold elections in wartime. That's democratic. Holding an election while a foreign aggressor is occupying part of your territory and terrorising its population, enabling them to suppress and manipulate their votes: that's undemocratic.