5 ms·
But... how?
by danduma 8mo ago
But... how?
- lostlogin 8mo agoCoal and cars? Looks like it clears up quite quickly.
- melting_snow 8mo agoDuring covid, when car traffic went to almost 0, the air quality was also extremely bad. Its mostly coal in the houses plus some people are not even using coal in their heating systems
- fragebogen 8mo agoAssuming a large contributing factor is all the coal plants now running to sustain Germany's independence from nuclear? Berlin's air quality has also tanked a lot since the energy crisis started.
- gregorygoc 8mo agoWrong assumption, it’s been that way long before the energy crisis started.
- timeon 8mo agoWhy would you jump to this conclusion? I wonder why some people on internet are repeating narratives like drones. Poland has largest use of coal in EU. Czechia and Germany are behind. Poland is including energy from sun and wind now a lot but there is still long way. Unlike surrounding countries they never had nuclear for some reason. https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/PL/live/ https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/PL/live/
- nephihaha 8mo agoPolish coal is said to have a high sulphur content which won't help either.
- scotty79 8mo agoSulfur can counteract warming (although not the carbon dioxide itself obviously). There was a brief period, right before the world stepped back from releasing sulfur into the atmosphere, when our carbon dioxide emissions were completely countered by our sulfur emissions, when it comes to global temperatures only.
- pjc50 8mo agoSoviet Union was unwilling to put nuclear that far west, and then after Chernobyl most nuclear construction was cancelled.
- js8 8mo ago> Soviet Union was unwilling to put nuclear that far west That seems wrong; Dukovany (and IIRC then-planned Temelin) were further to the west than most of Poland and operated just fine.
- adrianN 8mo agoIn January Germany exported more than 900GWh, in December Germany imported about 1400, but Poland also imported 290.
- scotty79 8mo agoBerlin's air quality is on par with what you find in the middle of the forest in Poland. I've done my measurements in both places.
- wewxjfq 8mo agoGermany's emissions fell by 13% since the energy crisis started. Driven by reductions in the energy sector. https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/themen/finale-daten-fuer-2024-emissionen-um-drei-prozent https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/themen/finale-daten-fuer-2024...
- Mashimo 8mo agoBut coal and lignite power production in TWh in Germany went down over the last decades? [0] Are you saying Germany is importing form Poland who is using goal power plants? [0] https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-consumption-and-power-mix-charts https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-c...
- Moldoteck 8mo agoSo did fall both internal demand and german net exports
- Moldoteck 8mo agoGermany isn't importing that much. Keeping nuclear would have helped exporting more clean power, including to Poland but that's another topic
- brettermeier 8mo agoNot clean, nuclear is dirty as hell.
- Moldoteck 8mo agoNuclear is one of the cleanest sources of power, if not the cleanest period. It requires least mining and materials over lifecycle vs any alternative per KWh. It requires least land. It's final waste volume is similar to renewables while both sectors do create toxic waste that must be stored forever (used fuel in case of nuclear and forever toxic chemicals like arsenic/lead in case of renewables) Saying nuclear is dirty as hell means you either are ill informed or spreading lies on purpose To give an example with Germany, probably being outpaced only by Austria in hate for nuclear power. Germans are concerned about small amounts of nuclear waste that will be stored in deep geo stable facilities (just like onkalo, soon fosmark, terradura and alikes) but germans are perfectly fine having the biggest near surface facility for storing forever toxic and dangerous chemicals on the planet, Herfa Neurode. Not just that, many are unaware that having a repository longterm is still a must even if they don't have nuclear power at all, due to medical and research sectors
- brettermeier 8mo agoRead stuff, you polluter: https://www.nirs.org/wp-content/uploads/factsheets/nuclearenergyisdirtyenergy2014.pdf https://www.nirs.org/wp-content/uploads/factsheets/nuclearen...
- Moldoteck 8mo agoThank you for proving yet again how misinformed you are, up to even spreading some nonsensical links... Here, read these as a starting point Carbon Neutrality in the UNECE Region: Integrated Life-cycle Assessment of Electricity Sources-> https://unece.org/sites/default/files/2022-04/LCA_3_FINAL%20March%202022.pdf https://unece.org/sites/default/files/2022-04/LCA_3_FINAL%20... Other stats too: https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy https://ourworldindata.org/low-carbon-technologies-need-far-less-mining-fossil-fuels https://ourworldindata.org/low-carbon-technologies-need-far-... Or even from nrel https://docs.nrel.gov/docs/fy21osti/80580.pdf https://docs.nrel.gov/docs/fy21osti/80580.pdf Or health impact in say Germany https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10640-025-01002-z https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10640-025-01002-z Those guys in nirs are clearly some wannabe antinuclear influencers which are concerned about nuclear supply chain and it's overall impact but are fine with ren supply chain with even bigger impact. They seem to be concerned about CO2 impact of nuclear due to concrete but fail to mention lifecycle data per kwh as in links I've provided. They are concerned about radioactive waste but not concerned about other toxic chemicals like arsenic. They are concerned about tritium when it's a low level emitter which you can drink and occurs naturally due to the sun. Most releases of tritium, including in Fukushima are below WHO limits. They are even concerned about some french units going offline during summer due to heat, but fail to mention even then France is top net exporter on the continent, avg heat impact affecting about 0.18% of production per year. They also fail to mention this is happening in units without cooling towers and edf isn't fixing it precisely because there's no financial value- France is exporting like crazy in this period - can check the data this summer on energy charts for confirmation. The 'article' is written in a childish manner by someone cherry picking everything to confirm own bias I heavily recommend you to look at this topic pragmatically instead of listening to some influencers like in your link or even greenpeace which did even more damage to the environment. Germany now is suffering due to such antinuclear movements. Not only more people died due to coal still being used, but existing nuclear fleet was cheapest firm power on the grid based on merit order data, while receiving significantly less subsidies than renewables. In fact, per official bundestag inquiry and later a parliament inquiry in Bavaria, nuclear in Germany didn't receive special subsidies for production at all, unlike renewables with EEG, which alone already outpaced the cost of all french nuclear fleet And naming me a polluter just confirms your bias and unwillingness to be informed about the topic, only to attach labels to people with different point of view
- gregorygoc 8mo agoIt’s in the valley and because Polish state is kinda weak they cannot enforce nearby villages to stop burning garbage to heat their homes.
- PunchyHamster 8mo agoat least try to hide your racism
- inglor_cz 8mo agoLOL, there is nothing racist about it, neither Poland nor Czechia are really into environmental enforcement against individuals, and you can definitely smell it in winter. As of now, "small sources of pollution" (e.g. mostly individual homes) are at least comparable to industry when it comes to releasing bad stuff into the air. I hate the acrid smell of burning plastic, but no one will do anything about it.
- Saline9515 8mo agoIt's the same in Latvia. Riga wants to set up a zero-emissions zone and a toll to enter the city center, but won't ban open stoves or solid fuel burning, which pollutes much more than cars in winter.
- TeMPOraL 8mo agoKraków just set up a clean transport zone; it went into full effect just few weeks ago. And people just can't shut up whining about it, even though it doesn't really put much burden on ~anyone. Most people drive petrol-powered cars (usually converted to support LPG, too), and the minimal norms for the clean transport zone are so low, it's hard to find a car that doesn't meet it. You can buy a used petrol-powered car with pocket change and it would already meet the norms.
- inglor_cz 8mo agoKraków badly needs a metro network, just like Prague and Warsaw have. That would alleviate the transport pressure a lot.
- kubb 8mo agoI think it’s topology (concave) + widespread poor heating methods in the agglomeration + a very bad day + inefficient combustion engines. I’d maybe include accurate measurements. The government isn’t trying to hide that and doesn’t have the means to, and highly quality sensors are widespread.
- nephihaha 8mo agoPlus continental, so it picks up dirty air from around.
- melting_snow 8mo agoThere are many houses in Poland that are using coal heating, and unfortunately a lot of people burn there their thrash. Kraków is surrounded by smaller towns and villages, where single family houses are common. To make things even worse, Kraków is in a basin, which makes the air flow even more difficult. If you add there years of city mismanagement when it comes to air flow, you land in such a situation
- egorfine 8mo agoDespite government incentives and regulations some people burn garbage in stows. It's a local cultural thing and the state seemingly is powerless to do anything about it despite being the 20th economy in the world.
- asdff 8mo agoAre people not aware that is absolutely terrible for their health?
- margor 8mo agoCommon uneducated answer is: everyone needs something to die from. Same with cigarette smoking.
- TeMPOraL 8mo agoFreezing to death is even more terrible for their health. It's also much more immediate. And so is being poor. Breathing dust and smoke is a minor inconvenience in comparison. Any negative health effects will become noticeable in decades if at all. Doesn't help that most of the people responsible likely remember themselves or their parents breathing even worse stuff most their lives, with no ill effect being seen. Hell, it's one reason I myself considered air quality issues to be overblown - I don't perceive smog. I couldn't tell you whether it's bad or good air day in Kraków - I could only tell you when the air is too clean because I get sore throat then. I no longer consider air quality to be an overblown fad, but that's because I have small children and they start coughing non-stop when the air gets bad.
- Saline9515 8mo agoIt's not just poverty, but education about pollution and a common view in the post-communist countries that the common good (clean air in this case) isn't so important. It's the same with things like noise or graffitis for instance. In Latvia you commonly see rich people with BMW SUVs behaving like this. My friends see no problem with having coal barbecue or very heavy music in the center of Riga. We often have to remind new tenants in our building the benefits of sorting waste - and they are not poor.
- PunchyHamster 8mo agoI'd suspect just small amount of datapoints with maybe bias for people installing air sensors because that particular area's air quality is bad for whatever reason (near to road, neighbour have old coal boiler etc.)
- schiffern 8mo agoFrom this source: https://www.iqair.com/mx-en/newsroom/krakow-among-top-10-most-polluted-cities-in-the-world-10-16-2025 https://www.iqair.com/mx-en/newsroom/krakow-among-top-10-mos... "Krakow’s pollution stems from a mix of local and regional sources. A primary culprit is domestic heating, the burning of coal and wood in older, inefficient household boilers and stoves remains widespread in the Małopolska region (1). Car traffic also adds nitrogen oxides and fine particulates, exacerbated by an ageing vehicle fleet. Topography and meteorology worsen the problem, Krakow sits in a basin-like region prone to temperature inversions and limited ventilation, allowing pollutants to accumulate. Additionally, emissions drift in from surrounding municipalities and industrial zones, making regional coordination crucial to air quality. Despite a solid-fuel ban in the city since 2019 and the replacement of many coal boilers, compliance is uneven and some residents still use banned fuel."
- melting_snow 8mo agoThe issue with solid-fuel ban is that its banned only inside of the city itself, not in the surrounding towns
- scotty79 8mo agoIt's almost as if slowing down the transition away from coal for political and social reasons is not such a great idea.
- dwedge 8mo agoThere isn't much wind there at all so the pollution can't escape. I'm not saying this isn't the residents' fault, but it isn't entirely the residents' fault.