4 ms·

You really don't need ANY study to know the obvious thing that tariffs are taxes on imports. It is being paid by Americans from DAY 1. The only difference being

by kshri24 9mo ago

You really don't need ANY study to know the obvious thing that tariffs are taxes on imports. It is being paid by Americans from DAY 1. The only difference being American Companies were taking the brunt of it all and it is now obvious that they cannot keep swallowing it and will eventually pass it on to the American consumers. It is crazy that so many in US STILL think tariffs are being paid for by exporting countries. US is sabotaging itself and pushing in the same "New World Order" that the right-wing conspiracy nuts kept warning about but ironically have been instrumental in accelerating it themselves anyways. Or maybe that was the design all along. To not go out in a whimper but with a big bang. If I were the Democrats, I would do nothing and just let the US admin destroy whatever little credibility it has left on the World stage... thereby securing mid-terms and the next Presidential elections.

hypeatei 9mo ago
> It is crazy that so many in US STILL think tariffs are being paid for by exporting countries. They knew it was a lie then, and they know it's one now. A plurality of voters want what's happening currently, they're not crazy, it's just a mix of xenophobia, isolationism, and inbreeding.
wolvoleo 9mo ago
> If I were the Democrats, I would do nothing and just let the US admin destroy whatever little credibility it has left on the World stage... thereby securing mid-terms and the next Presidential elections. Not a great idea. The US will have lost a lot of political goodwill by then. And given up a lot of geopolitical status and influence. The devices will be back in the saddle but have to resort to really unpopular measures to clean up the mess, basically guaranteeing a republican win afterwards. And some credibility and influence will never recover. The rest of the world will remember there can always be another trump. And they will have switched to (and restarted) local industries. Once those are running there's no incentive to look at US ones again. And any geopolitical influence that was lost will already have been filled by other players who will entrench themselves.
- kshri24 9mo ago
  > The US will have lost a lot of political goodwill by then Not really. All Governments across the World have undergone similar crisis in their own Countries, in different points in time in their own history, and know well to differentiate an erratic Government from its populace. I bet no one has ill-will towards Americans (unless you are into terrorism) and so will obviously want to mend ways once a better admin is elected and put in place. The issue really though is not about political goodwill. It is about business that gets moved elsewhere. Once moved, it is really hard to bring it back. So US will then have to make a lot of concessions when it comes to that. The reason rest of the World is upset with the new tariff regime is not because they are being affected by it monetarily (which they actually are not), but because they do not want to sever a well established system and go looking for new buyers/sellers. For example, China decided to stop buying soybeans from US (after Trump threatened tariffs) and switched to buying from Argentina. Now once a new US admin is in place, it will have to give a better deal for China to switch its already established supply chain with Argentina to US again. Inertia is a good thing in trade. Infact, I feel it is even more important than building a moat. People are willing to continue paying higher price (even if something cheap is available elsewhere) because they do not want to go through the hassle of moving away from already established supply-chains and renegotiate new deals. > really unpopular measures to clean up the mess Agreed. > Once those are running there's no incentive to look at US ones again They will if US comes with better deals. This is the "unpopular measures to clean up the mess" you were pointing to earlier. Right now there is a mismatch between what US is actually worth and what it is projecting. I am not saying it is not a superpower anymore. It still very much is. But it is failing to recognize the rise of great powers in the rest of the World. And is unable to reconcile with multi-polarity that has already arrived and exists. As long as US is in denial of this reality, it will continue to make mistakes. > And any geopolitical influence that was lost will already have been filled by other players who will entrench themselves I agree but I'll go further and argue that the Trump admin is behaving erratically because it has realized it has lost geopolitical influence and that other players have already entrenched themselves. Trump has diagnozed the problem correctly (that US has lost its hegemony in many areas) but has no expertise (or even experts around him) to advice him on the right course of action.
  - 9mo ago
danaris 9mo ago
The problem with that last is that if the Democrats do nothing, there's a very real chance that Trump deploys the military to either prevent the midterms from happening, or to force their outcome to be what he wants. (Of course, if they do something there's still a chance he does that—they have to do the right thing and they have to do it well to reduce the chances by much!) There's also that pesky matter of, y'know, their constituents. Who are getting bled dry by the stagflation that's happening.
hnburnsy 9mo ago
> You really don't need ANY study to know the obvious thing that tariffs are taxes on imports. It is being paid by Americans from DAY 1. The only difference being American Companies were taking the brunt of it all and it is now obvious that they cannot keep swallowing it and will eventually pass it on to the American consumers. I say they exact same thing to my liberal friends who endorse corporate tax increases, but they don't think it is obvious that companies will eventually pass it on to the American consumers.
- kshri24 9mo ago
  Corporate tax or even personal income tax is not the same as tax on cost of the product itself. As a corporate, I can structure my expenses in such a way that I never pay tax irrespective of whether the tax rate is 10% or 50%. There are ways to do that (through deductions/expenses/investments in assets that can be depreciated and included as expenses etc) and even defer my earnings over a period of time. You have various ways to reduce final tax liability. You cannot escape paying tariffs or sales tax as it is levied on the product you are purchasing. It is not a tax that is levied AFTER you have calculated your income.

by kshri24 9mo ago

hypeatei 9mo ago

> It is crazy that so many in US STILL think tariffs are being paid for by exporting countries. They knew it was a lie then, and they know it's one now. A plurality of voters want what's happening currently, they're not crazy, it's just a mix of xenophobia, isolationism, and inbreeding.

wolvoleo 9mo ago

> If I were the Democrats, I would do nothing and just let the US admin destroy whatever little credibility it has left on the World stage... thereby securing mid-terms and the next Presidential elections. Not a great idea. The US will have lost a lot of political goodwill by then. And given up a lot of geopolitical status and influence. The devices will be back in the saddle but have to resort to really unpopular measures to clean up the mess, basically guaranteeing a republican win afterwards. And some credibility and influence will never recover. The rest of the world will remember there can always be another trump. And they will have switched to (and restarted) local industries. Once those are running there's no incentive to look at US ones again. And any geopolitical influence that was lost will already have been filled by other players who will entrench themselves.

kshri24 9mo ago
> The US will have lost a lot of political goodwill by then Not really. All Governments across the World have undergone similar crisis in their own Countries, in different points in time in their own history, and know well to differentiate an erratic Government from its populace. I bet no one has ill-will towards Americans (unless you are into terrorism) and so will obviously want to mend ways once a better admin is elected and put in place. The issue really though is not about political goodwill. It is about business that gets moved elsewhere. Once moved, it is really hard to bring it back. So US will then have to make a lot of concessions when it comes to that. The reason rest of the World is upset with the new tariff regime is not because they are being affected by it monetarily (which they actually are not), but because they do not want to sever a well established system and go looking for new buyers/sellers. For example, China decided to stop buying soybeans from US (after Trump threatened tariffs) and switched to buying from Argentina. Now once a new US admin is in place, it will have to give a better deal for China to switch its already established supply chain with Argentina to US again. Inertia is a good thing in trade. Infact, I feel it is even more important than building a moat. People are willing to continue paying higher price (even if something cheap is available elsewhere) because they do not want to go through the hassle of moving away from already established supply-chains and renegotiate new deals. > really unpopular measures to clean up the mess Agreed. > Once those are running there's no incentive to look at US ones again They will if US comes with better deals. This is the "unpopular measures to clean up the mess" you were pointing to earlier. Right now there is a mismatch between what US is actually worth and what it is projecting. I am not saying it is not a superpower anymore. It still very much is. But it is failing to recognize the rise of great powers in the rest of the World. And is unable to reconcile with multi-polarity that has already arrived and exists. As long as US is in denial of this reality, it will continue to make mistakes. > And any geopolitical influence that was lost will already have been filled by other players who will entrench themselves I agree but I'll go further and argue that the Trump admin is behaving erratically because it has realized it has lost geopolitical influence and that other players have already entrenched themselves. Trump has diagnozed the problem correctly (that US has lost its hegemony in many areas) but has no expertise (or even experts around him) to advice him on the right course of action.
- 9mo ago

danaris 9mo ago

The problem with that last is that if the Democrats do nothing, there's a very real chance that Trump deploys the military to either prevent the midterms from happening, or to force their outcome to be what he wants. (Of course, if they do something there's still a chance he does that—they have to do the right thing and they have to do it well to reduce the chances by much!) There's also that pesky matter of, y'know, their constituents. Who are getting bled dry by the stagflation that's happening.

hnburnsy 9mo ago

> You really don't need ANY study to know the obvious thing that tariffs are taxes on imports. It is being paid by Americans from DAY 1. The only difference being American Companies were taking the brunt of it all and it is now obvious that they cannot keep swallowing it and will eventually pass it on to the American consumers. I say they exact same thing to my liberal friends who endorse corporate tax increases, but they don't think it is obvious that companies will eventually pass it on to the American consumers.

kshri24 9mo ago
Corporate tax or even personal income tax is not the same as tax on cost of the product itself. As a corporate, I can structure my expenses in such a way that I never pay tax irrespective of whether the tax rate is 10% or 50%. There are ways to do that (through deductions/expenses/investments in assets that can be depreciated and included as expenses etc) and even defer my earnings over a period of time. You have various ways to reduce final tax liability. You cannot escape paying tariffs or sales tax as it is levied on the product you are purchasing. It is not a tax that is levied AFTER you have calculated your income.