5 ms·

As a Brit who studied history, the parallels to 1930s Germany are too strong for comfort. So I would suggest reading up on that for some answers. Although as t

by benj111 9mo ago

As a Brit who studied history, the parallels to 1930s Germany are too strong for comfort. So I would suggest reading up on that for some answers. Although as the comparison hopefully makes clear, you worrying about tariffs is missing the point, it's more a question of basic democracy at this point. I'm also somewhat concerned about your (edit: as in the USs) new found lust for Lebensraum, because again, that went well last time.

bartread 9mo ago
> I'm also somewhat concerned about your new found lust for Lebensraum I beg your pardon?!? Who the hell do you think you're talking to? Read my comment again.
- benj111 9mo ago
  Are you not from the US? I wasn't accusing you personally of supporting your governments actions, but I think you as in your country is acceptable terminology.
  - bartread 9mo ago
    No. I literally said in my original comment that I'm not from the US.
    - benj111 9mo ago
      Ok my apologies, no insult intended, I edited the post to make my meaning more clear.
igogq425 9mo ago
As a German, I am generally cautious about drawing hasty parallels with the Holocaust, but I must admit: now that you mention it, the Sturmabteilung and the Schutzstaffel probably began their work in the streets of the country in a similar way to ICE today. """ Sturmabteilung (SA) The SA was formed in 1921 as the paramilitary fighting organization of the NSDAP and protected party events. After 1933, under Ernst Röhm, it carried out street violence against Jews, communists, and trade unions, grew to millions of members, but was crushed in 1934 in the Röhm Putsch. Schutzstaffel (SS) The SS started in 1925 as Hitler's elite bodyguard under Heinrich Himmler and emancipated itself from the SA. From 1934, it took over police duties, concentration camp guarding, and from 1936, the Gestapo, directing deportations and the Holocaust. """ It sends a chill down my spine when I think about this comparison. I recently heard about an ICE agent who tried to drag an indigenous woman out of her car and said to her, “You're next!”
- PurpleRamen 9mo ago
  > As a German, I am generally cautious about drawing hasty parallels with the Holocaust, The drawings are not about the holocaust, but the fascism which has led to that point. The holocaust started nearly a decade after Hitler taking power. And I don't think anyone believes Trump or his puppet masters are seriously after an actual genocide; everything else and the victims they accept as "necessary" for their goals are the problem. History can repeat itself, but never in the same cloths. Some details are always different.
  - watwut 9mo ago
    Anti jew laws and violence started literally as he took power. They did not had mechanics of it down yet, but the intention and first attempts were present.
- benj111 9mo ago
  I'm not drawing parallels to the holocaust per se. I don't think anyone in Germany voted for the mustachioed one expecting that. They had various grievances and wanted a 'strong' leader. The voting against democracy is the issue, not the thing that was voted for. The holocaust is just a very good example of why you shouldn't throw your principles out to vote for a 'strong' leader who will improve 'your' life.
  - watwut 9mo ago
    Back then, yes, many voted for holocaust. It did not had a name yet, but they wanted exactly that. They also voted for military conquest, they celebrated start of the war. Including or even especially so young men seeking to prove their masculinity. They were not voting to just bring better conditions for themselves. They voted to bring glory and violent victories. They believed themselves to be strong dominant men who will bring good times to the aryan races.
    - benj111 9mo ago
      The 'final solution' hadn't been decided on, so no I don't think any Germans voted for that, were the Jews openly being vilified? Yes, but that's like equating ICE rounding up illegals, and Trump sending your neighbour to a death camp, because the imagined 'other' doesn't include your neighbour who technically is an other, but one of the good ones so will be fine. For the rest, you're forgetting how humans work. Do you think the average MAGA voting is voting to destroy someone else? Or do you think they're voting to improve their lot? Voting for expansionism doesn't necessarily mean voting for world war. I'm British, it's very easy to compartmentalise invading a country, from developing a country, civilising, being a net good, etc, etc. What did the average USian think Afghanistan was going to be? Or Iraq? Do the USians who want Greenland imagine that's going to turn into WW3? Nuclear war? The enemy are very rarely mustache twiddling baddies.

by benj111 9mo ago

bartread 9mo ago

> I'm also somewhat concerned about your new found lust for Lebensraum I beg your pardon?!? Who the hell do you think you're talking to? Read my comment again.

benj111 9mo ago
Are you not from the US? I wasn't accusing you personally of supporting your governments actions, but I think you as in your country is acceptable terminology.
- bartread 9mo ago
  No. I literally said in my original comment that I'm not from the US.
  - benj111 9mo ago
    Ok my apologies, no insult intended, I edited the post to make my meaning more clear.

igogq425 9mo ago

As a German, I am generally cautious about drawing hasty parallels with the Holocaust, but I must admit: now that you mention it, the Sturmabteilung and the Schutzstaffel probably began their work in the streets of the country in a similar way to ICE today. """ Sturmabteilung (SA) The SA was formed in 1921 as the paramilitary fighting organization of the NSDAP and protected party events. After 1933, under Ernst Röhm, it carried out street violence against Jews, communists, and trade unions, grew to millions of members, but was crushed in 1934 in the Röhm Putsch. Schutzstaffel (SS) The SS started in 1925 as Hitler's elite bodyguard under Heinrich Himmler and emancipated itself from the SA. From 1934, it took over police duties, concentration camp guarding, and from 1936, the Gestapo, directing deportations and the Holocaust. """ It sends a chill down my spine when I think about this comparison. I recently heard about an ICE agent who tried to drag an indigenous woman out of her car and said to her, “You're next!”

PurpleRamen 9mo ago
> As a German, I am generally cautious about drawing hasty parallels with the Holocaust, The drawings are not about the holocaust, but the fascism which has led to that point. The holocaust started nearly a decade after Hitler taking power. And I don't think anyone believes Trump or his puppet masters are seriously after an actual genocide; everything else and the victims they accept as "necessary" for their goals are the problem. History can repeat itself, but never in the same cloths. Some details are always different.
- watwut 9mo ago
  Anti jew laws and violence started literally as he took power. They did not had mechanics of it down yet, but the intention and first attempts were present.
benj111 9mo ago
I'm not drawing parallels to the holocaust per se. I don't think anyone in Germany voted for the mustachioed one expecting that. They had various grievances and wanted a 'strong' leader. The voting against democracy is the issue, not the thing that was voted for. The holocaust is just a very good example of why you shouldn't throw your principles out to vote for a 'strong' leader who will improve 'your' life.
- watwut 9mo ago
  Back then, yes, many voted for holocaust. It did not had a name yet, but they wanted exactly that. They also voted for military conquest, they celebrated start of the war. Including or even especially so young men seeking to prove their masculinity. They were not voting to just bring better conditions for themselves. They voted to bring glory and violent victories. They believed themselves to be strong dominant men who will bring good times to the aryan races.
  - benj111 9mo ago
    The 'final solution' hadn't been decided on, so no I don't think any Germans voted for that, were the Jews openly being vilified? Yes, but that's like equating ICE rounding up illegals, and Trump sending your neighbour to a death camp, because the imagined 'other' doesn't include your neighbour who technically is an other, but one of the good ones so will be fine. For the rest, you're forgetting how humans work. Do you think the average MAGA voting is voting to destroy someone else? Or do you think they're voting to improve their lot? Voting for expansionism doesn't necessarily mean voting for world war. I'm British, it's very easy to compartmentalise invading a country, from developing a country, civilising, being a net good, etc, etc. What did the average USian think Afghanistan was going to be? Or Iraq? Do the USians who want Greenland imagine that's going to turn into WW3? Nuclear war? The enemy are very rarely mustache twiddling baddies.