4 ms·

No. I'm on GrapheneOS and not tied to Google. You must be thinking of the Google Play Services but these aren't required by GrapheneOS.

pjmlp 9mo ago
As long as it depends on Google paying upstream development that GrapheneOS updates from, it is tied to Google. Now if GrapheneOS was its own thing without additional AOSP code updates.
- philipallstar 9mo ago
  This becomes sophistry, though. "tied to" in a way that doesn't matter, doesn't matter.
  - pjmlp 9mo ago
    Ah but it does, as Google can decide to close down AOSP shop at any moment.
    - microtonal 9mo ago
      If that happens, the world can always try to fork. Until then it seems kind of pointless to do so?
      - pjmlp 9mo ago
        Try is the keyword here. Hence why these efforts should not rely on US institutions good will in first place.
      - metalman 9mo ago
        Can try to fork?, china , russia, and lots of smaller countrys are steadily moving away and as basic introperability standards for phone and internet will remain, they can do this, and pressure is also mounting to get a linux phone fully functional, that will alao happen. And in a world where Guggappl is providing genocide and abduction services, Billions would happily choose other alternatives.
        kombine 9mo ago
        China and Russia are likewise involved in their own genocides (Uyghurs and Ukraine respectively), and they are just as interested in developing centralised systems of control. They will not give the world truly free and open platform.
        metalman 9mo ago
        "They will not give the world truly free and open platform", uhuhu!, but we are giving them the pivot point to claim the flag of freedom , rather than just doing that ourselves. also, one more move from you know who, and a whole lot of countrys will have to very seriously start looking for stable deals that last longer than it takes the ink to dry. China just ghosted nvidia, on the "something 200" ai chip to start shipping in march, tsmc and all there suppliers have stood down on that, and will of course, instantly re focus on the next job, which might be a batch of chips for fairphones....
        fsflover 9mo ago
        > but we are giving them the pivot point to claim the flag of freedom Nobody said that, so you're arguing with the strawman. The OS offering actual freedom is GNU/Linux.
    - realusername 9mo ago
      The day they do that, Android will just be a Chinese product and Google will lose control over it.
      - pjmlp 9mo ago
        Huawei took control of its own destiny instead of relying on Google forks. https://developer.huawei.com/consumer/en/design/ https://developer.huawei.com/consumer/en/design/ https://developer.huawei.com/consumer/en/harmonyos/develop/ https://developer.huawei.com/consumer/en/harmonyos/develop/
        realusername 9mo ago
        Indeed and if Google would pull the plug on AOSP, some initiative like this would become the de facto Android standard.
        pjmlp 9mo ago
        I doubt that people advocating for GrapheneOS would pivot to a Chinese powered platform.
        realusername 9mo ago
        They would have to follow like everybody else, they aren't powerful enough to dictate market trends. 8 out of the top 10 Android manufacturers are Chinese. Google would just lose the ownership of Android to a Chinese consortium used by everybody else.
        izacus 9mo ago
        I love your optimism. What you'll see is return to 2000s where you may have had "Symbian" as the operating system, but the phones weren't compatible between themselves and apps broke and didn't work across manufacturers (or even product lines) because there was noone enforcing compatibility. I wonder if you forgot that or you're too young to remember what kind of bizarre hell mobile development was at that time. Heck, even early Android was really hard to develop for because CTS suite didn't cover enough and all of us spent hours upon hours (and many dollars) trying to reproduce and fix Samsung, Huawei, HTC and other bugs.
catlikesshrimp 9mo ago
It is tied to google inasmuch all target phones are google branded. https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices Hopefully that can change, in the future
- fsflover 9mo ago
  It's tied to Google's development strategy, such as removal of Manifest-V2, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41905368 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41905368
- JCattheATM 9mo ago
  It could change now, it could have changed years ago, they just have no interest in trying. It's pretty annoying honestly.
izacus 9mo ago
No, we're thinking about the fact that Android is Google owned and developed and no removal of Play Services changes that. Every Android ROM is critically dependant on Googles work to actually develop and secure the OS.
brnt 9mo ago
Anyone on Graphene is tied tot Google, for it requires Google hardware.

pjmlp 9mo ago

As long as it depends on Google paying upstream development that GrapheneOS updates from, it is tied to Google. Now if GrapheneOS was its own thing without additional AOSP code updates.

philipallstar 9mo ago
This becomes sophistry, though. "tied to" in a way that doesn't matter, doesn't matter.
- pjmlp 9mo ago
  Ah but it does, as Google can decide to close down AOSP shop at any moment.
  - microtonal 9mo ago
    If that happens, the world can always try to fork. Until then it seems kind of pointless to do so?
    - pjmlp 9mo ago
      Try is the keyword here. Hence why these efforts should not rely on US institutions good will in first place.
    - metalman 9mo ago
      Can try to fork?, china , russia, and lots of smaller countrys are steadily moving away and as basic introperability standards for phone and internet will remain, they can do this, and pressure is also mounting to get a linux phone fully functional, that will alao happen. And in a world where Guggappl is providing genocide and abduction services, Billions would happily choose other alternatives.
      - kombine 9mo ago
        China and Russia are likewise involved in their own genocides (Uyghurs and Ukraine respectively), and they are just as interested in developing centralised systems of control. They will not give the world truly free and open platform.
        metalman 9mo ago
        "They will not give the world truly free and open platform", uhuhu!, but we are giving them the pivot point to claim the flag of freedom , rather than just doing that ourselves. also, one more move from you know who, and a whole lot of countrys will have to very seriously start looking for stable deals that last longer than it takes the ink to dry. China just ghosted nvidia, on the "something 200" ai chip to start shipping in march, tsmc and all there suppliers have stood down on that, and will of course, instantly re focus on the next job, which might be a batch of chips for fairphones....
        fsflover 9mo ago
        > but we are giving them the pivot point to claim the flag of freedom Nobody said that, so you're arguing with the strawman. The OS offering actual freedom is GNU/Linux.
  - realusername 9mo ago
    The day they do that, Android will just be a Chinese product and Google will lose control over it.
    - pjmlp 9mo ago
      Huawei took control of its own destiny instead of relying on Google forks. https://developer.huawei.com/consumer/en/design/ https://developer.huawei.com/consumer/en/design/ https://developer.huawei.com/consumer/en/harmonyos/develop/ https://developer.huawei.com/consumer/en/harmonyos/develop/
      - realusername 9mo ago
        Indeed and if Google would pull the plug on AOSP, some initiative like this would become the de facto Android standard.
        pjmlp 9mo ago
        I doubt that people advocating for GrapheneOS would pivot to a Chinese powered platform.
        realusername 9mo ago
        They would have to follow like everybody else, they aren't powerful enough to dictate market trends. 8 out of the top 10 Android manufacturers are Chinese. Google would just lose the ownership of Android to a Chinese consortium used by everybody else.
        izacus 9mo ago
        I love your optimism. What you'll see is return to 2000s where you may have had "Symbian" as the operating system, but the phones weren't compatible between themselves and apps broke and didn't work across manufacturers (or even product lines) because there was noone enforcing compatibility. I wonder if you forgot that or you're too young to remember what kind of bizarre hell mobile development was at that time. Heck, even early Android was really hard to develop for because CTS suite didn't cover enough and all of us spent hours upon hours (and many dollars) trying to reproduce and fix Samsung, Huawei, HTC and other bugs.

catlikesshrimp 9mo ago

It is tied to google inasmuch all target phones are google branded. https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices Hopefully that can change, in the future

fsflover 9mo ago
It's tied to Google's development strategy, such as removal of Manifest-V2, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41905368 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41905368
JCattheATM 9mo ago
It could change now, it could have changed years ago, they just have no interest in trying. It's pretty annoying honestly.

izacus 9mo ago

No, we're thinking about the fact that Android is Google owned and developed and no removal of Play Services changes that. Every Android ROM is critically dependant on Googles work to actually develop and secure the OS.

brnt 9mo ago

Anyone on Graphene is tied tot Google, for it requires Google hardware.