5 ms·

As a reference, ~1500-2000 people die every year due to cars in Spain.

by thecopy 9mo ago

ifwinterco 9mo ago
You have to divide that by miles travelled to get a meaningful number - trains will still be a lot safer, but comparing oranges to apples doesn't help the argument
embedding-shape 9mo ago
Relative comparison for 2023: United States: 7.83 deaths/km Spain: 4.41 deaths/km Sweden: 2.79 deaths/km
mlrtime 9mo ago
I knew this would come up so specifically searched for the comment. And I knew the death rate for cars would be >>>> than trains. HOWEVER, there is something unique scary about a single incident that kills more people that fit in a typical car. Combined with the fact that you have 0 control over it is much more frightening (for lack of a better word) than car static deaths. Just my opnion, may not be rational but I'd still rather be behind the wheel?
- embedding-shape 9mo ago
  > but I'd still rather be behind the wheel Maybe if it's a trip I do once in a while. But going from Málaga to Madrid and back once a week, in a car, driving? Or Barcelona <> Madrid once a week? No, hard pass, I'd rather be driven by someone else, in a comfy carriage, where I can comfortably sleep or do other things in the meantime. Me and thousands of others agree, otherwise we wouldn't have one of the most expansive train networks in the world. Spain might be larger than people think, driving to everywhere in the country while fun, isn't feasible for repeated trips, the distances are just too large. With that said, every once in a while a road trip with a car is really nice, maybe every 1-2 years, and driving across Europe stopping when you see something interesting or driving towards interesting things you see in the distance. Hard to get that same "explorer" feeling with other modes of transportation :)
  - mlrtime 9mo ago
    True, I don't drive or take public transportation for a commute so I wasn't thinking of that scenario. I wasn't thinking of a scenario where I HAD to do it frequently.
    - embedding-shape 9mo ago
      Afaik, that's how lots (most?) of the train network is used here, cheap commuting to/from work on the weekdays, and to/from birthplace/family-town/city/closest metropolitan area on the weekends/holidays. Probably true for most places with extensive train networks, come to think of it.
- jeroenhd 9mo ago
  > fact that you have 0 control over it I may feel in control inside of my car, but it's up to the rest of the general populace to not T-bone me and kill me on every intersection and roundabout I pass. Every corner is a risk where someone can steer into my lane and cause a frontal collision. Every highway off-ramp, a suicidal driver may try to kill himself against my car. Every truck I pass is a possible burst tyre away from crushing me against the barriers. And that's outside of the car; pedestrians are at the whim of any vehicle. Most people usually behave on the road, stick to driving legally, don't drink or do drugs behind the wheel, and can manage to stop safely in dangerous situations. However, I feel like many people overestimate how well they could control their car in a dangerous scenario.
  - mlrtime 9mo ago
    100% true, and it may not be rational vs statistics. However in your case your control is still > 0. Seasoned drivers have a six sense about the environment. * Everyone over estimates their driving ability vs the average * No matter how much control you think you have, there are always things outside your control.
    - messe 9mo ago
      > Seasoned drivers have a six sense about the environment. > * Everyone over estimates their driving ability vs the average Reflect on that for a moment.
      - mlrtime 9mo ago
        It wasn't by mistake, it was there to let replies know I had reflected on it. Humans aren't [100%] rational, never will be. That is why Spock is so popular.
    - agubelu 9mo ago
      > * Everyone over estimates their driving ability vs the average Exactly. If there's an issue, I'd much rather delegate control to the pilots or train drivers who have been trained to deal with such issues.
- agubelu 9mo ago
  I'll take a trip by train or plane rather than by car every single time. I feel WAY more safe knowing that the vehicle is operated by trained professionals and there's an extremely robust system around them to ensure safety, rather than whatever semblance of control I think I have driving my car.
- ihaveajob 9mo ago
  Yes, it's the same as with nuclear vs coal. A nuclear disaster is so spectacular that it attracts a lot of attention. Meanwhile, millions of kids suffering from asthma, dying of cancer, etc. don't make the 9pm news because it's harder to connect the dots.
alt227 9mo ago
How many cars are on the road in spain compared to how many trains are on the rail network? I would like to see an apples to apples comparison of deaths per mile travelled on the road and rail networks.
- thinkingtoilet 9mo ago
  I think the only real metric would be death for X km traveled, correct?
  - alt227 9mo ago
    That is exactly what I wrote isnt it? EDIT: You replied no and then deleted your post, I assume that is because you agree.
    - deleted 9mo ago
      [deleted]

As a reference, ~1500-2000 people die every year due to cars in Spain.

by thecopy 9mo ago

As a reference, ~1500-2000 people die every year due to cars in Spain.

You have to divide that by miles travelled to get a meaningful number - trains will still be a lot safer, but comparing oranges to apples doesn't help the argument

embedding-shape 9mo ago

Relative comparison for 2023: United States: 7.83 deaths/km Spain: 4.41 deaths/km Sweden: 2.79 deaths/km

mlrtime 9mo ago

I knew this would come up so specifically searched for the comment. And I knew the death rate for cars would be >>>> than trains. HOWEVER, there is something unique scary about a single incident that kills more people that fit in a typical car. Combined with the fact that you have 0 control over it is much more frightening (for lack of a better word) than car static deaths. Just my opnion, may not be rational but I'd still rather be behind the wheel?

embedding-shape 9mo ago
> but I'd still rather be behind the wheel Maybe if it's a trip I do once in a while. But going from Málaga to Madrid and back once a week, in a car, driving? Or Barcelona <> Madrid once a week? No, hard pass, I'd rather be driven by someone else, in a comfy carriage, where I can comfortably sleep or do other things in the meantime. Me and thousands of others agree, otherwise we wouldn't have one of the most expansive train networks in the world. Spain might be larger than people think, driving to everywhere in the country while fun, isn't feasible for repeated trips, the distances are just too large. With that said, every once in a while a road trip with a car is really nice, maybe every 1-2 years, and driving across Europe stopping when you see something interesting or driving towards interesting things you see in the distance. Hard to get that same "explorer" feeling with other modes of transportation :)
- mlrtime 9mo ago
  True, I don't drive or take public transportation for a commute so I wasn't thinking of that scenario. I wasn't thinking of a scenario where I HAD to do it frequently.
  - embedding-shape 9mo ago
    Afaik, that's how lots (most?) of the train network is used here, cheap commuting to/from work on the weekdays, and to/from birthplace/family-town/city/closest metropolitan area on the weekends/holidays. Probably true for most places with extensive train networks, come to think of it.
jeroenhd 9mo ago
> fact that you have 0 control over it I may feel in control inside of my car, but it's up to the rest of the general populace to not T-bone me and kill me on every intersection and roundabout I pass. Every corner is a risk where someone can steer into my lane and cause a frontal collision. Every highway off-ramp, a suicidal driver may try to kill himself against my car. Every truck I pass is a possible burst tyre away from crushing me against the barriers. And that's outside of the car; pedestrians are at the whim of any vehicle. Most people usually behave on the road, stick to driving legally, don't drink or do drugs behind the wheel, and can manage to stop safely in dangerous situations. However, I feel like many people overestimate how well they could control their car in a dangerous scenario.
- mlrtime 9mo ago
  100% true, and it may not be rational vs statistics. However in your case your control is still > 0. Seasoned drivers have a six sense about the environment. * Everyone over estimates their driving ability vs the average * No matter how much control you think you have, there are always things outside your control.
  - messe 9mo ago
    > Seasoned drivers have a six sense about the environment. > * Everyone over estimates their driving ability vs the average Reflect on that for a moment.
    - mlrtime 9mo ago
      It wasn't by mistake, it was there to let replies know I had reflected on it. Humans aren't [100%] rational, never will be. That is why Spock is so popular.
  - agubelu 9mo ago
    > * Everyone over estimates their driving ability vs the average Exactly. If there's an issue, I'd much rather delegate control to the pilots or train drivers who have been trained to deal with such issues.
agubelu 9mo ago
I'll take a trip by train or plane rather than by car every single time. I feel WAY more safe knowing that the vehicle is operated by trained professionals and there's an extremely robust system around them to ensure safety, rather than whatever semblance of control I think I have driving my car.
ihaveajob 9mo ago
Yes, it's the same as with nuclear vs coal. A nuclear disaster is so spectacular that it attracts a lot of attention. Meanwhile, millions of kids suffering from asthma, dying of cancer, etc. don't make the 9pm news because it's harder to connect the dots.

alt227 9mo ago

How many cars are on the road in spain compared to how many trains are on the rail network? I would like to see an apples to apples comparison of deaths per mile travelled on the road and rail networks.

thinkingtoilet 9mo ago
I think the only real metric would be death for X km traveled, correct?
- alt227 9mo ago
  That is exactly what I wrote isnt it? EDIT: You replied no and then deleted your post, I assume that is because you agree.
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]