5 ms·

It's amazing and sad to watch Republicans so quickly forget what 'Republic' means as they trash State Sovereignty and lick the Federal Boot...MAGA means RINO.

goatlover 9mo ago
I guess "Don't Tread on Me" and states rights are just for red states. It's shameful watching all the hypocrisy.
- colechristensen 9mo ago
  So many people are like this. Their ideals only apply when they benefit people they like.
  - cheema33 9mo ago
    You may not have meant to excuse the sad state we are in by presenting the "both sides are bad" argument. But it does have a strong whiff of it. Both sides are bad. No doubt about it. It has always been that way. But, one side takes being bad to a whole new level. Our choice has always been between bad and less bad. The voters decided to pull the lever for "massively bad" during the last presidential election because they could not tell the difference.
    - colechristensen 9mo ago
      The politics of fear stoked by two sets of extremists egging eachother on is the core reason we're in this mess, the failure to reject both simultaneously and the desire to rule with feelings instead of facts caused it all. I'm not a "whatabout" guy, I'm actively opposed to both extremes. The far left is just as capable of ruling with violence as the far right, they just haven't got the opportunity in this country yet. The politics of emotion and absolutism is the cause, which flavor of extremism you pick isn't the core issue.
      - timeon 9mo ago
        [flagged]
        quantummagic 9mo ago
        [flagged]
        ryandrake 9mo ago
        [flagged]
        quantummagic 9mo ago
        You can pretend all you want. The proof is in the reality of what we see. Mass illegal immigration is not a center-right or even left position. It's a "far left" position that has had enough political power to be enforced for years now.
        Cornbilly 9mo ago
        The Libertarian Party advocates for free and open immigration. Are you going to sit here and tell us that the Libertarians are far-left?
        quantummagic 9mo ago
        That's the most disingenuous argument yet, that completely ignores reality. The libertarian party does NOT advocate for illegal immigration today. Only once NAP-violating governments are abolished, do they contend that the harmful effects of unconstrained immigration are non-existent. They argue that if you want complete freedom of movement, you must first give up all claim to nonconsensual government force, including taxation and redistribution of wealth. And even the most radical of libertarians include a "non-aggression" exception. They support screening to exclude violent criminals, security threats, and health risks. All of which are impossible if there is no monitoring or reasonable enforcement. You know _damn well_ that in the context of actual politics in America as they stand TODAY, open immigration is a FAR LEFT position. It's undeniable to anyone arguing in good faith.
    - themaninthedark 9mo ago
      In agreement with sibling colechristensen but wanted to add. >The voters decided to pull the lever for "massively bad" during the last presidential election because they could not tell the difference. That is being intellectually dishonest, we had already had 4 years of Trump and similarly had 4 years of Kahmala with Biden. Saying they were ignorant or didn't understand is to ignore the electorate and their issues.
      - SubiculumCode 9mo ago
        The problem is pervasive propaganda and information bubbles...i.e., systemic.
      - AnimalMuppet 9mo ago
        We get to give one bit of feedback to "the system" every four years. After four years of Trump, the feedback was "we don't want that". After four years of Biden, the feedback was "not that, either". My impression of the US electorate is that they don't want illegal immigration, at least not in the volume and with the openness it was happening. They don't want immigrant trains rolling through Mexico. But they don't want the brutality and violence of the current crackdown, either. They don't want trans people on womens' sports teams, and they don't want the US taking over Greenland. And so on. So after four years, the majority of voters were choosing "not Biden, and not the Biden things we don't like" rather than "yes Trump". The place where it was "yes Trump" was the Republican primary. If you want to fix US politics, get involved with a political party - either one - and have some influence on who comes out of the primary process.
  - rainsford 9mo ago
    I used to have that perspective, but I actually think it's even simpler than selective application of principles or hypocrisy as the parent commentator put it. It's not so much that they believe in an ideal but struggle to apply it when doing so isn't in their favor and more that their guiding premise is that things should always go their way and they adopt the language, but not the intent, of a deeper principle because it sounds like a better justification.
    - colechristensen 9mo ago
      We don't disagree. I suppose "their ideals only apply when... " and saying "they don't actually hold the ideals they claim" really are the same thing.
- mschuster91 9mo ago
  Every accusation is a confession, rules for me not for thee, it's been like that for many years. Hell, 'member Clinton and the blowjob? The problem wasn't the blowjob, the problem was that Clinton let himself get caught and exposed. Or, specifically to the situation at hand, there's yet another famous quote applicable: Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect. It's completely obvious what ICE and the ordinary citizens of all blue regions are, respectively.
- themaninthedark 9mo ago
  Any time the red states brought up "States Rights", the response from the other side was "States rights to what? Oh...you mean slavery." So what States Rights are we supporting now? Both sides are very good at developing and using tactics against the other then acting surprised Pikachu when it is turned back on them. Look at journalists and "Learn to Code" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19358725 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19358725
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]

goatlover 9mo ago

I guess "Don't Tread on Me" and states rights are just for red states. It's shameful watching all the hypocrisy.

colechristensen 9mo ago
So many people are like this. Their ideals only apply when they benefit people they like.
- cheema33 9mo ago
  You may not have meant to excuse the sad state we are in by presenting the "both sides are bad" argument. But it does have a strong whiff of it. Both sides are bad. No doubt about it. It has always been that way. But, one side takes being bad to a whole new level. Our choice has always been between bad and less bad. The voters decided to pull the lever for "massively bad" during the last presidential election because they could not tell the difference.
  - colechristensen 9mo ago
    The politics of fear stoked by two sets of extremists egging eachother on is the core reason we're in this mess, the failure to reject both simultaneously and the desire to rule with feelings instead of facts caused it all. I'm not a "whatabout" guy, I'm actively opposed to both extremes. The far left is just as capable of ruling with violence as the far right, they just haven't got the opportunity in this country yet. The politics of emotion and absolutism is the cause, which flavor of extremism you pick isn't the core issue.
    - timeon 9mo ago
      [flagged]
      - quantummagic 9mo ago
        [flagged]
        ryandrake 9mo ago
        [flagged]
        quantummagic 9mo ago
        You can pretend all you want. The proof is in the reality of what we see. Mass illegal immigration is not a center-right or even left position. It's a "far left" position that has had enough political power to be enforced for years now.
        Cornbilly 9mo ago
        The Libertarian Party advocates for free and open immigration. Are you going to sit here and tell us that the Libertarians are far-left?
        quantummagic 9mo ago
        That's the most disingenuous argument yet, that completely ignores reality. The libertarian party does NOT advocate for illegal immigration today. Only once NAP-violating governments are abolished, do they contend that the harmful effects of unconstrained immigration are non-existent. They argue that if you want complete freedom of movement, you must first give up all claim to nonconsensual government force, including taxation and redistribution of wealth. And even the most radical of libertarians include a "non-aggression" exception. They support screening to exclude violent criminals, security threats, and health risks. All of which are impossible if there is no monitoring or reasonable enforcement. You know _damn well_ that in the context of actual politics in America as they stand TODAY, open immigration is a FAR LEFT position. It's undeniable to anyone arguing in good faith.
  - themaninthedark 9mo ago
    In agreement with sibling colechristensen but wanted to add. >The voters decided to pull the lever for "massively bad" during the last presidential election because they could not tell the difference. That is being intellectually dishonest, we had already had 4 years of Trump and similarly had 4 years of Kahmala with Biden. Saying they were ignorant or didn't understand is to ignore the electorate and their issues.
    - SubiculumCode 9mo ago
      The problem is pervasive propaganda and information bubbles...i.e., systemic.
    - AnimalMuppet 9mo ago
      We get to give one bit of feedback to "the system" every four years. After four years of Trump, the feedback was "we don't want that". After four years of Biden, the feedback was "not that, either". My impression of the US electorate is that they don't want illegal immigration, at least not in the volume and with the openness it was happening. They don't want immigrant trains rolling through Mexico. But they don't want the brutality and violence of the current crackdown, either. They don't want trans people on womens' sports teams, and they don't want the US taking over Greenland. And so on. So after four years, the majority of voters were choosing "not Biden, and not the Biden things we don't like" rather than "yes Trump". The place where it was "yes Trump" was the Republican primary. If you want to fix US politics, get involved with a political party - either one - and have some influence on who comes out of the primary process.
- rainsford 9mo ago
  I used to have that perspective, but I actually think it's even simpler than selective application of principles or hypocrisy as the parent commentator put it. It's not so much that they believe in an ideal but struggle to apply it when doing so isn't in their favor and more that their guiding premise is that things should always go their way and they adopt the language, but not the intent, of a deeper principle because it sounds like a better justification.
  - colechristensen 9mo ago
    We don't disagree. I suppose "their ideals only apply when... " and saying "they don't actually hold the ideals they claim" really are the same thing.
mschuster91 9mo ago
Every accusation is a confession, rules for me not for thee, it's been like that for many years. Hell, 'member Clinton and the blowjob? The problem wasn't the blowjob, the problem was that Clinton let himself get caught and exposed. Or, specifically to the situation at hand, there's yet another famous quote applicable: Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect. It's completely obvious what ICE and the ordinary citizens of all blue regions are, respectively.
themaninthedark 9mo ago
Any time the red states brought up "States Rights", the response from the other side was "States rights to what? Oh...you mean slavery." So what States Rights are we supporting now? Both sides are very good at developing and using tactics against the other then acting surprised Pikachu when it is turned back on them. Look at journalists and "Learn to Code" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19358725 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19358725
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]