3 ms·
Counter example: Kagi.
by dsr_ 9mo ago
Counter example: Kagi.
- MontyCarloHall 9mo agoKagi is a niche product at best, with revenue literally orders of magnitude lower than Google's.
- throwaway150 9mo agoYes, but it is still a valid counterexample to: > I think ads will inevitably roll out across all tiers
- sodapopcan 9mo agoI think they're saying it's inevitable for billion dollar capitalist companies. /not-s And anyway, companies that just want to make a really good living doing what they love are lame. /s
- dmd 9mo agoIt's really not, though. If a "valid counterexample" can be something with, say, one user, then I can make a "valid counterexample" to literally anything you choose, but that's meaningless.
- Teever 9mo agoSomeone is showing that they can deliver similar products or services without ads. It’s comparable. Not every corporate entity needs to become a behemoth to be successful.
- MontyCarloHall 9mo agoKagi is too small and niche to have a proprietary dataset across its users large enough to make targeted advertising generate more revenue than subscriptions. OpenAI/Google/etc. operate at a much larger scale, large enough for those proprietary user datasets to be worth far more in ad revenue than any reasonable subscription fee could net.
- throwaway150 9mo ago> Kagi is too small and niche to have a proprietary dataset across its users large enough to make targeted advertising generate more revenue than subscriptions. All of this is true. But I don't understand why you are contesting @dsr_'s comment that Kagi is a counterexample. Both are true. Kagi is too small. Yes. And Kagi is a counterexample to your original "I think ads will inevitably roll out across all tiers" claim. You said nothing about being too big or too small in that claim. So @dsr_'s comment that Kagi is a counterexample is very much on point.
- account42 9mo agoI don't think a seven your old company is a counterexample to the inevitability of anything.
- tasty_freeze 9mo agoAt one time Google was a niche website, literally orders of magnitude lower than Alta Vista.
- rvz 9mo agoWith that logic, are you also going to expect Kagi to generate minimum $10B to $35B in revenue a quarter over the next 27 years then, the lifetime of Google's existence? Do you see how such a comparison doesn't work?
- tasty_freeze 9mo agoNo, I don't expect it to be the next Google, nor did my statement imply that. The point was that just because something is small doesn't mean it has to remain small. That is true whether or not Kagi never becomes the biggest. > Do you see how such a comparison doesn't work? No, I don't.
- rvz 9mo agoThank you for admitting that Kagi is not a viable counter example.
- bflesch 9mo agoKagi has recently moved to new offices in Belgrade. While I like their product we should not forget that serbia is not a free country, there has been massive corruption and russian influence. Even though there are massive protests from time to time, no leadership change has happened. I don't think the Kagi team has any bad intentions, and most likely they have attended the anti-Vucic protests as well. Moving back to Serbia is an economically wise choice for Kagi as a company. However, once regime goons show up in Kagi's offices, they will be forced to do whatever the serbian government and by extension putin wants them to do. Often Kagi gets mentioned alongside Protonmail and related privacy-focused services. But Switzerland is a totally different country than serbia to operate it. It's a risk we should be aware of and consciously decide to accept when we are using Kagi.
- prmoustache 9mo ago> But Switzerland is a totally different country than serbia to operate it. CIA vs Putin. Not that different imho.
- bflesch 9mo agoYour "humble opinion" is totally worthless because your are using false equivalence bias in order to minimize the atrocities and war crimes that putin has committed against Ukraine and the citizens of many other countries including his own.
- prmoustache 9mo agoAre you saying that USA do not commit war crimes? Oh yes that's right, they kill and commit atrocities even without declaring war!
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- raffael_de 9mo agoWhy is that a counter example? Kagi is just providing a convenient access to several language models that might well advertise via API, too.