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The main issue as I see it is that we need food security in the EU. Especially high quality nutrious dense food like beef. And EU farmers are subject to a ridi

The main issue as I see it is that we need food security in the EU. Especially high quality nutrious dense food like beef. And EU farmers are subject to a ridiculous number of regulations and costs. The thing is, these may very well be good for environmental reasons, but it doesn't work if we just start importing from countries that do the opposite.

deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
pousada 9mo ago
What hurts EU farmers the most are the huge supermarket chains which control prices. The rules&regulations thing is an often cited meme but the price war is much more impactful. In fact we could produce for example in Germany milk in a sustainable and very environmentally friendly way if it would just cost a couple cents more, like 10 cents or even less. But consumers will basically riot if you raise the prices there so the supermarket chains don’t do it and instead put more pressure on the farmers to produce cheaply. If you read the MERCOSUR agreement then you’ll see there are a ton of protections included against the thing you are afraid of.
- afpx 9mo ago
  Don’t you guys have farmer’s markets? I buy a lot of my stuff direct from the farmer.
  - pousada 9mo ago
    We do have those markets but they are much more expensive (for exactly that reason that they aren’t subject to the price gauge as the supermarkets are). They are essentially for some (rich) hippies/yuppies only. I can’t speak for other EU countries but in Germany people will buy the cheapest food almost always. Quality or farmer welfare is a minor concern for the majority.
  - wiether 9mo ago
    Of course we do But most people don't want to make the effort to go there instead of buying everything at the supermarket Even though they still say that they want our farmers to have decent working conditions and incomes But even the farmers will eat cheap imported lentils over local ones
eigenspace 9mo ago
Most of the sensitive food imports from Mercosur (including beef) are subject to quotas specifically to protect the domestic EU food production chain. It's true that EU farmers are subject to a lot of burdens and costs, but I also think people are seriously underestimating just how effective a lot of the European agricultural sector is. In fact, this deal is probably going to result in a lot more export of high value, prestigious food items like cheeses and cured meats to South America, which could even have the surprising effect of increasing the amount of farm animals raised in Europe.
thrance 9mo ago
If you want food security, beef is one of the worst options. It is extremely land-inefficient (not to mention very polluting as well).
dataviz1000 9mo ago
I'm currently in Brazil. Buenos Aries has NYC, Miami food prices. One of the things that strikes me the most is price of food here and Argentina, Uruguay, and Paraguay. By shipping the food to Europe and United States, it makes it extremely expensive here. After decades of authoritarian control, the food production here has been concentrated into a few extraordinary families. The EU farmers are not the only people getting the short stick.
- NoboruWataya 9mo ago
  Do you mean the prices are as high as NYC relative to local income? Because if farmers can get NYC prices in their own country I don't see why they would ship their produce all the way to the EU, where they won't even be able to get that (NYC is more expensive than the large majority of Europe).
  - dataviz1000 9mo ago
    I mean a cheese burger costs $18 USD and I couldn't find cheaper without having to walk 3 miles in Buenos Aries.
    - dlisboa 9mo ago
      Argentina is an outlier as their economy is in the dumps, for the rest of SA food is much cheaper than in Europe. But in general you are right that food prices in some countries in SA are artificially high because most of our food is exported, so the domestic market has to pay a premium. We also export the highest quality food. If we fed the domestic market first and exported the surplus food prices would be a fraction of what they are today.
      - deleted 9mo ago
        [deleted]
    - NoboruWataya 9mo ago
      I was in BA quite recently and didn't find it that expensive in restaurants, even in Recoleta. Inflation is so volatile there it can change by the week I guess. But if what you are saying is true about meat being so expensive, I think that just means that meat isn't going to be sold to Europe, because Europeans aren't going to pay that price and Argentinian meat producers aren't going to ship their produce to Europe and comply with all the red tape to get the same or lower prices. Granted, in some poorer areas where meat is currently quite cheap the effects of competition could be more acute.
exceptione 9mo ago
Food security is the last concern for Europe. How do you get that idea? > And EU farmers are subject to a ridiculous number of regulations and costs. Almost the whole EU budget is for agriculture subsidies. Countries outside EU have to comply with the same standards. The US could for instance export in bulk to the EU, if they would manage to bring food up to basic standards. It doesn't happen, but is not because the market isn't open.
- NoboruWataya 9mo ago
  > Food security is the last concern for Europe. How do you get that idea? Food security is the first concern for every society, because without food we will all die. The reason almost the whole EU budget (hyperbole, but indeed it is a lot of the EU budget) is spent on agricultural subsidies is precisely to protect our food security.
  - exceptione 9mo ago
    Truism aside, Europe hasn't a lack of fertile grounds nor good climate. Europe has a pressing need for minerals and energy. > The reason almost the whole EU budget (hyperbole, but indeed > it is a lot of the EU budget) is spent on agricultural > subsidies is precisely to protect our food security. Protect food security or export status? Case in point, we are overspending on agriculture. Also, it would have been better to trade with African countries wrt the real pressing concern. A missed chance.
  - mmooss 9mo ago
    > Food security is the first concern for every society, because without food we will all die. It depends on what you mean by "first concern". Water security is the first concern by that reasoning; nuclear attack security too - without it, everyone dies. But those aren't serious concerns in any practical sense: In most places in Europe there is plenty of water and food, and attention and resources are rightfully directed elsewhere.
- Bewelge 9mo ago
  >Food security is the last concern for Europe. How do you get that idea? On the contrary, it is one of the main concerns of the EU. And has been since the beginning. The CAP still makes up 40% of the budget. And frankly, for the first time I fully appreciate it. With the current state of the world it's nice that the EU isn't dependent on third parties for their food supply.
geocar 9mo ago
> The thing is, these may very well be good for environmental reasons, but it doesn't work if we just start importing from countries that do the opposite. Everything I have read suggests the EU has controls to "temporarily suspend tariff preferences on agricultural imports from Mercosur if these imports harm EU producers" https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/eu-mercosur-agreements-explained/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/eu-mercosur-agre... and they intend to "uphold EU animal welfare rules" specifically so consumers aren't harmed either. https://www.foodnavigator.com/Article/2025/09/04/eu-mercosur-deal-explained/ https://www.foodnavigator.com/Article/2025/09/04/eu-mercosur... > The main issue as I see it... Who are you? If you're an expert, can you share a couple links with some analysis of which part of this agreement will harm the environment, so I know exactly what you're talking about? And not in a vague hand-wavey way with all these weasel-words about "may very well", but an actual thing, because I live here and can vote, but I think this is a good deal, and am genuinely confused why anyone would think it isn't, so if I can get educated here, I don't want to pass up the chance!
- port11 9mo ago
  Well, who are you? As a voter, I’m already disappointed in Belgium’s lack of a gold standard for the welfare of chicken-laying eggs and male chick grinding. So we’re stuck buying the more expensive organic eggs. Okay, so the partners promise to uphold animal welfare standards. How are we checking? How often? Are their emissions lower than ours? Do they pollute their waterways? What do they feed their livestock? Was it grown using pesticides we’ve banned, but feed was conveniently laundered through a 3rd-party importer? I think it’s good to strike deals with new partners, but Mercosur was consistently criticised for not addressing corruption, not helping the already suicidal EU farmers, etc. It went full steam ahead, without any regard for the voters and their opinions. Source? Dunno, I went to the protests and maybe I’m very biased.
enaaem 9mo ago
Mercusor nations only get lower tariffs up to a certain amount. For meat that's roughly 1.5% of EU production. That is no threat to Europe's strategic capacity. https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-trade-relationships-country-and-region/countries-and-regions/mercosur/eu-mercosur-agreement/factsheet-eu-mercosur-partnership-agreement-opening-opportunities-european-farmers_en https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-trade-relationships-cou...
TiredOfLife 9mo ago
EU is pork land. US is the beef one
giacomoforte 9mo ago
Beef was literally never a staple food in the EU. There's only a few regions were there is enough pasture land for a local operation but even then it was always too expensive to be a staple. Pork has always been the staple meat and we grow enough of that.
layer8 9mo ago
Mercosur imports are subject to the same food safety standards as non-imports: https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-trade-relationships-country-and-region/countries-and-regions/mercosur/eu-mercosur-agreement/factsheet-eu-mercosur-partnership-agreement-respecting-europes-health-and-safety-standards_en https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-trade-relationships-cou...

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]

pousada 9mo ago

What hurts EU farmers the most are the huge supermarket chains which control prices. The rules&regulations thing is an often cited meme but the price war is much more impactful. In fact we could produce for example in Germany milk in a sustainable and very environmentally friendly way if it would just cost a couple cents more, like 10 cents or even less. But consumers will basically riot if you raise the prices there so the supermarket chains don’t do it and instead put more pressure on the farmers to produce cheaply. If you read the MERCOSUR agreement then you’ll see there are a ton of protections included against the thing you are afraid of.

afpx 9mo ago
Don’t you guys have farmer’s markets? I buy a lot of my stuff direct from the farmer.
- pousada 9mo ago
  We do have those markets but they are much more expensive (for exactly that reason that they aren’t subject to the price gauge as the supermarkets are). They are essentially for some (rich) hippies/yuppies only. I can’t speak for other EU countries but in Germany people will buy the cheapest food almost always. Quality or farmer welfare is a minor concern for the majority.
- wiether 9mo ago
  Of course we do But most people don't want to make the effort to go there instead of buying everything at the supermarket Even though they still say that they want our farmers to have decent working conditions and incomes But even the farmers will eat cheap imported lentils over local ones

eigenspace 9mo ago

Most of the sensitive food imports from Mercosur (including beef) are subject to quotas specifically to protect the domestic EU food production chain. It's true that EU farmers are subject to a lot of burdens and costs, but I also think people are seriously underestimating just how effective a lot of the European agricultural sector is. In fact, this deal is probably going to result in a lot more export of high value, prestigious food items like cheeses and cured meats to South America, which could even have the surprising effect of increasing the amount of farm animals raised in Europe.

thrance 9mo ago

If you want food security, beef is one of the worst options. It is extremely land-inefficient (not to mention very polluting as well).

dataviz1000 9mo ago

I'm currently in Brazil. Buenos Aries has NYC, Miami food prices. One of the things that strikes me the most is price of food here and Argentina, Uruguay, and Paraguay. By shipping the food to Europe and United States, it makes it extremely expensive here. After decades of authoritarian control, the food production here has been concentrated into a few extraordinary families. The EU farmers are not the only people getting the short stick.

NoboruWataya 9mo ago
Do you mean the prices are as high as NYC relative to local income? Because if farmers can get NYC prices in their own country I don't see why they would ship their produce all the way to the EU, where they won't even be able to get that (NYC is more expensive than the large majority of Europe).
- dataviz1000 9mo ago
  I mean a cheese burger costs $18 USD and I couldn't find cheaper without having to walk 3 miles in Buenos Aries.
  - dlisboa 9mo ago
    Argentina is an outlier as their economy is in the dumps, for the rest of SA food is much cheaper than in Europe. But in general you are right that food prices in some countries in SA are artificially high because most of our food is exported, so the domestic market has to pay a premium. We also export the highest quality food. If we fed the domestic market first and exported the surplus food prices would be a fraction of what they are today.
    - deleted 9mo ago
      [deleted]
  - NoboruWataya 9mo ago
    I was in BA quite recently and didn't find it that expensive in restaurants, even in Recoleta. Inflation is so volatile there it can change by the week I guess. But if what you are saying is true about meat being so expensive, I think that just means that meat isn't going to be sold to Europe, because Europeans aren't going to pay that price and Argentinian meat producers aren't going to ship their produce to Europe and comply with all the red tape to get the same or lower prices. Granted, in some poorer areas where meat is currently quite cheap the effects of competition could be more acute.

exceptione 9mo ago

Food security is the last concern for Europe. How do you get that idea? > And EU farmers are subject to a ridiculous number of regulations and costs. Almost the whole EU budget is for agriculture subsidies. Countries outside EU have to comply with the same standards. The US could for instance export in bulk to the EU, if they would manage to bring food up to basic standards. It doesn't happen, but is not because the market isn't open.

NoboruWataya 9mo ago
> Food security is the last concern for Europe. How do you get that idea? Food security is the first concern for every society, because without food we will all die. The reason almost the whole EU budget (hyperbole, but indeed it is a lot of the EU budget) is spent on agricultural subsidies is precisely to protect our food security.
- exceptione 9mo ago
  Truism aside, Europe hasn't a lack of fertile grounds nor good climate. Europe has a pressing need for minerals and energy. > The reason almost the whole EU budget (hyperbole, but indeed > it is a lot of the EU budget) is spent on agricultural > subsidies is precisely to protect our food security. Protect food security or export status? Case in point, we are overspending on agriculture. Also, it would have been better to trade with African countries wrt the real pressing concern. A missed chance.
- mmooss 9mo ago
  > Food security is the first concern for every society, because without food we will all die. It depends on what you mean by "first concern". Water security is the first concern by that reasoning; nuclear attack security too - without it, everyone dies. But those aren't serious concerns in any practical sense: In most places in Europe there is plenty of water and food, and attention and resources are rightfully directed elsewhere.
Bewelge 9mo ago
>Food security is the last concern for Europe. How do you get that idea? On the contrary, it is one of the main concerns of the EU. And has been since the beginning. The CAP still makes up 40% of the budget. And frankly, for the first time I fully appreciate it. With the current state of the world it's nice that the EU isn't dependent on third parties for their food supply.

geocar 9mo ago

> The thing is, these may very well be good for environmental reasons, but it doesn't work if we just start importing from countries that do the opposite. Everything I have read suggests the EU has controls to "temporarily suspend tariff preferences on agricultural imports from Mercosur if these imports harm EU producers" https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/eu-mercosur-agreements-explained/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/eu-mercosur-agre... and they intend to "uphold EU animal welfare rules" specifically so consumers aren't harmed either. https://www.foodnavigator.com/Article/2025/09/04/eu-mercosur-deal-explained/ https://www.foodnavigator.com/Article/2025/09/04/eu-mercosur... > The main issue as I see it... Who are you? If you're an expert, can you share a couple links with some analysis of which part of this agreement will harm the environment, so I know exactly what you're talking about? And not in a vague hand-wavey way with all these weasel-words about "may very well", but an actual thing, because I live here and can vote, but I think this is a good deal, and am genuinely confused why anyone would think it isn't, so if I can get educated here, I don't want to pass up the chance!

port11 9mo ago
Well, who are you? As a voter, I’m already disappointed in Belgium’s lack of a gold standard for the welfare of chicken-laying eggs and male chick grinding. So we’re stuck buying the more expensive organic eggs. Okay, so the partners promise to uphold animal welfare standards. How are we checking? How often? Are their emissions lower than ours? Do they pollute their waterways? What do they feed their livestock? Was it grown using pesticides we’ve banned, but feed was conveniently laundered through a 3rd-party importer? I think it’s good to strike deals with new partners, but Mercosur was consistently criticised for not addressing corruption, not helping the already suicidal EU farmers, etc. It went full steam ahead, without any regard for the voters and their opinions. Source? Dunno, I went to the protests and maybe I’m very biased.

enaaem 9mo ago

Mercusor nations only get lower tariffs up to a certain amount. For meat that's roughly 1.5% of EU production. That is no threat to Europe's strategic capacity. https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-trade-relationships-country-and-region/countries-and-regions/mercosur/eu-mercosur-agreement/factsheet-eu-mercosur-partnership-agreement-opening-opportunities-european-farmers_en https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-trade-relationships-cou...

TiredOfLife 9mo ago

EU is pork land. US is the beef one

giacomoforte 9mo ago

Beef was literally never a staple food in the EU. There's only a few regions were there is enough pasture land for a local operation but even then it was always too expensive to be a staple. Pork has always been the staple meat and we grow enough of that.

layer8 9mo ago

Mercosur imports are subject to the same food safety standards as non-imports: https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-trade-relationships-country-and-region/countries-and-regions/mercosur/eu-mercosur-agreement/factsheet-eu-mercosur-partnership-agreement-respecting-europes-health-and-safety-standards_en https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-trade-relationships-cou...