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EU and Mercosur countries sign landmark free trade deal
- comrade1234 9mo agoSwitzerland is part of it too but with a separate deal signed last year but still has to be approved in parliament. Switzerland also has a free-trade agreement with china that has been very lucrative. No other European country has this.
- nephihaha 9mo agoThe PRC doesn't even have free trade within itself. Probably a one sided deal, but the apparatchiks have somewhere to stow their money now.
- comrade1234 9mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_trade_agreements_of_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_trade_agreements_of_China
- nephihaha 9mo agoI'm sure there is a Wikipedia page on it. Fact remains that the PRC is a one party dictatorship which has pioneered a social credit system. Not exactly internal free trade and its international trade agreements will have strings attached.
- peterashford 9mo agoNZ has had a free trade agreement with China since 2009. It has no strings attached in the sense of restrictions that we would not want.
- BSDobelix 9mo ago>Switzerland also has a free-trade agreement with china And India ;) https://www.bag.admin.ch/en/newnsb/O8hG66Fgv1j36OLRRz0Ud https://www.bag.admin.ch/en/newnsb/O8hG66Fgv1j36OLRRz0Ud
- oytis 9mo agoI'm surprised Trump didn't threaten involved parties with tariffs or military action over that yet. As a European, very happy about that happening, for multiple reasons. It's a shame it took so long
- Havoc 9mo agoMaybe that’ll still come once he gets his intel briefing from Fox & Friends
- finnjohnsen2 9mo agoMe too. I just think he needs to pick his battles right now as Greenland is taking so much space.
- bildung 9mo agoWell yesterday he already imposed tariffs on several EU countries because they oppose the annexation of Greenland, so I wouldn't be surprised if he does the same in this case. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/trump-vows-tariffs-eight-european-nations-over-greenland-2026-01-17/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/trump-vows-tariffs-eigh...
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- iagooar 9mo agoThe multiple reasons being exactly? In my opinion it is a net negative for all countries in Europe, but one.
- dtech 9mo agoThis can more some of the incredibly polluting meat (beef) industry to countries where the pollution is lower due to less intensive methods over a larger area, which is a win-win. This is a boon to any European manufacturer and machining company.
- oytis 9mo agoMost importantly, Europe needs more trading partners after having lost Russia and now losing the United States. Second, I am happy about German (I suspect it's similar in other EU countries) farmers largely supporting the far-right getting a taste of a world without protectionism and regulations. Finally, I hope for lower grocery prices, not only for myself, but also because it makes the whole social situation less explosive.
- nephihaha 9mo agoThe eventual aim is to join all these blocs up.
- embedding-shape 9mo agoIsn't the eventual aim of all of us on this planet that we all trade free, live peacefully and have our own prosperous lives?
- pjc50 9mo agoQuite a few people are willing to ruin their own lives and prosperity to make others worse off. Once you realize that, a lot of things become more explicable.
- embedding-shape 9mo agoBut I don't think their goal is explicitly to make others worse off, it's just the consequence of their actions. But in their mind, they're rightful, they're doing the best they can and they care about others on the level "you should". Most people think like this, including you and me.
- nephihaha 9mo agoIn the near future almost all work will have been automated. That leaves a few thousand very rich people and billions who have no paid income. That is not a good ratio and the rich and powerful want things to go in their favour, not ours.
- nephihaha 9mo ago"Isn't the eventual aim of all of us on this planet that we all trade free, live peacefully and have our own prosperous lives?" It's not about all of us. It's about a select few who think they are better than the rest of us and form our political and business classes. Those people don't want most of the world's population living untroubled lives. When work is almost completely automated the rest of us will be surplus to requirements.
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- iagooar 9mo agoThis is a bad deal for many European countries that still have a strong farming industry, and for Europeans in general too. Once again, Germany has pushed through its interests at the expense of other European nations like Poland. This time even France was against it. What is Germany going to get? A new market for their decaying automobile industry. What is the rest of Europe going to get? Cheap, low quality food shipped thousands of kilometers. Food produced with lower standards than food produced in the EU - so farmers in Europe now have to face unfair competition.
- raverbashing 9mo agoFarmers like to complain and always get new privileges with every protest I for once are happy they are getting a reality check for once
- iagooar 9mo agoI hope you won't get a reality check if one day there is a famine in Europe caused by outsourcing the entire farming to other continents. The very first thing any enemy force would do is a naval blockade, the rest is patience and lots of deaths.
- bildung 9mo agoFarming already is heavily subsidized in every EU country. The whole sector only exists as is precisely because of the fears you point out. And that is perfectly fine, because statistically speaking it already is a rounding error both in share of employment and share of GDP (1.2% of EU GDP), only kept alive for the exact purpose you talk about. So even if these lobby talking points would be true, and everything had to be 100% subsidized, that wouldn't be a problem.
- surgical_fire 9mo agoBuddy, we are talking about a quota that is less than 2% of the beef produced in EU. If having 1% of beef imported causes a famine, then the farming in Europe is actually pretty awful.
- AdrianB1 9mo agoThere is some valid criticism raised by farmers in my country (Romania) related to use of pesticides and other substances that are forbidden in EU, but permitted in Mercosur and products can be imported even with the forbidden substances in it. That sounds pretty bad, consumer protection is the only part that I still like about modern EU.
- bildung 9mo agoBut is that really true, i.e. were you able to find actual facts supporting this? I'm asking because in Germany there are similar talking points driven by the farmer's associations (actually just the big agro corps, actual small-scale farmers don't have much of a voice in these) and everytime I tried to dig into a particular topic, it didn't seem to be supported by actual facts.
- AdrianB1 9mo agoWhat facts are you looking for, real products imported on this agreement and analyzed in a lab? Obviously not, the agreement was just signed. But, I read about examples of substances allowed in the Mercosur countries and forbidden in EU. https://www.collectifstoptafta.org/IMG/pdf/mercosur_et_pesticides.pdf https://www.collectifstoptafta.org/IMG/pdf/mercosur_et_pesti... , https://euobserver.com/climate/151818 https://euobserver.com/climate/151818
- NoboruWataya 9mo agoDoes the deal actually allow food to be imported into the EU if it does not comply with EU health and safety regulations?
- ivan_gammel 9mo agoIt does not.
- Saline9515 9mo ago
- 3ple_alpha 9mo agoRemoving tariffs on beef specifically is a serious mistake, there's no need to incentivise any more production of that. Other agricultural imports, like soy and coffee beans, are a huge boon to the EU on the other hand. If this results in cheaper coffee, everyone in my country, for one, will be ecstatic.
- trollbridge 9mo agoWhat’s wrong with pasture raised beef like they raise in Argentina?
- coryrc 9mo agoMethane emissions, I assume. (Solvable with 2% seaweed in the diet) Also possibly rainforest destruction for crops, but I'm not as sure about that.
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- trollbridge 9mo agoRainforest in Argentina? Argentina beef are raised in pasture. About as eco friendly as it gets. Converting pasture to row crops is far more devastating to the environment (topsoil loss, GHG emissions from loss of biomatter in topsoil, fossil fuel derived fertiliser and more.)
- expedition32 9mo agoAbsolutely nothing it is just European farmers crying. As if the EU doesn't already spend billions on farming subsidies. Even if WW3 breaks out we can turn all of Europe into a vegetable garden in less than a year- the UK did this in 1940. Nobody is going to starve FFS.
- trollbridge 9mo agoThat’s a pretty bold claim. I think people who want to eat need to be comfortable producing their own food. Being utterly reliant on, say, the U.S. means ultimately the U.S. will tell you what to do.
- mikaeluman 9mo agoThe main issue as I see it is that we need food security in the EU. Especially high quality nutrious dense food like beef. And EU farmers are subject to a ridiculous number of regulations and costs. The thing is, these may very well be good for environmental reasons, but it doesn't work if we just start importing from countries that do the opposite.
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- pousada 9mo agoWhat hurts EU farmers the most are the huge supermarket chains which control prices. The rules®ulations thing is an often cited meme but the price war is much more impactful. In fact we could produce for example in Germany milk in a sustainable and very environmentally friendly way if it would just cost a couple cents more, like 10 cents or even less. But consumers will basically riot if you raise the prices there so the supermarket chains don’t do it and instead put more pressure on the farmers to produce cheaply. If you read the MERCOSUR agreement then you’ll see there are a ton of protections included against the thing you are afraid of.
- afpx 9mo agoDon’t you guys have farmer’s markets? I buy a lot of my stuff direct from the farmer.
- pousada 9mo agoWe do have those markets but they are much more expensive (for exactly that reason that they aren’t subject to the price gauge as the supermarkets are). They are essentially for some (rich) hippies/yuppies only. I can’t speak for other EU countries but in Germany people will buy the cheapest food almost always. Quality or farmer welfare is a minor concern for the majority.
- wiether 9mo agoOf course we do But most people don't want to make the effort to go there instead of buying everything at the supermarket Even though they still say that they want our farmers to have decent working conditions and incomes But even the farmers will eat cheap imported lentils over local ones
- onesandofgrain 9mo agoCheaper coffee this must mean for europe.
- embedding-shape 9mo agoAnd it's already pretty cheap, how much cheaper can it get? Usually you'd pay somewhere around 1-1.2 EUR for an espresso, 1.5-2.0 EUR for "fancier" coffees, at least here in Spain (depends a lot on exactly where though).
- nottorp 9mo agoYou never make your own coffee at home then? Price of coffee as in the ingredient for making the espresso has about doubled since covid.
- embedding-shape 9mo agoWhere exactly has it doubled? I don't think I've noticed that here, I have coffee outside and at home.
- NoboruWataya 9mo agoCoffee has been getting more expensive for years, albeit mainly due to climate-related factors rather than political ones. In northern Europe it (like most things) is a lot more expensive.
- TiredOfLife 9mo agoSince covid coffee has doubled in price.
- embedding-shape 9mo agoBut where? Certainly not here.
- vemv 9mo agoAt which point the "rest of the world" (everyone but the US) can just threaten Trump with making the US economically irrelevant? That would seem a simple and peaceful solution to the Trump-inflicted bullying - stop messing around or we'll cease all commerce with you. As I see it, just the bluff would suffice. Make the threat credible and the higher powers would remove Trump in a day or two.
- exceptione 9mo ago> Make the threat credible and the higher powers would remove Trump in a day or two. Maybe, maybe not. Trump is here to distract the public via the media business, while behind the scenes ideologues implement Project 2025. The factions behind the GOP aren't aligned on all parts, so an erratic path is to be expected. What unites them is that their agenda isn't aligned with the electorate. People still try to make sense of things, like this is just another administration, maybe a weird one, but fundamentally part of the same society as you and me. We can't recognize the real nature of that beast, because we are short of imagination. And... we don't want to believe in conspiracy theories, right? The top isn't compatible with democracy, people like Thiel are not shy about it. We just don't want to believe that.
- vemv 9mo agoThanks, interesting, what articles can I read to learn more?
- NoboruWataya 9mo agoI am from a country (Ireland) that has a huge agricultural sector so I sympathise with the argument that this will be bad for European farmers. That said, food production in the EU is already largely kept alive by subsidies so if this deal makes life more difficult for farmers I can see the result being higher subsidies to compensate rather than the large scale closure of European farms. Which obviously isn't great but possibly a fair price to pay for the deal as a whole (I don't know enough about it honestly). But I think the deal is quite positive from a geopolitical perspective. For one, any deal we make without the US just makes us more resilient in the event of a trade war that looks increasingly inevitable. Obviously Mercosur can't replace the US but it's a step in the right direction. And strengthening ties between the EU and Latin America makes it more difficult for Russia and China to bring that continent into their sphere of influence.
- augusto-moura 9mo agoIt replaces the US in the most beneficial ways for Europe, I would say. Mercosur is mostly commodities and no manufactured products, think iron, food (and rare earth). That helps tremendously with the idea of building or improving European own industry. There's a lot of incentives to mercosur to import european machinery and start it's own industrial sector. All in all, mercosur already has strong ties with western europe (Portugal, Spain, Germany, Italy), both historic-cultural and economic, I see this as a huge win
- tpm 9mo agoI am from a country with a not so huge agricultural sector (Slovakia) and think that anything that brings food prices down while not hugely affecting quality will be good. Food in the EU is overpriced relative to the rest of the world. There are reasons for that I can understand but still.
- nix-zarathustra 9mo agoWhat do you mean by "not so huge agricultural sector (Slovakia)"? I thought Slovakia had a more agrarian economy compared to the more industrialised Czechia.
- raffael_de 9mo agoOne might think that the importance of self-reliance with respect to essential resources is something to be learned from the past years. So, I'm not sure it's such a great idea to harm our local food production and import via the Atlantic ocean instead.
- miohtama 9mo agoOne does need self-reliance but enough diversification of sources.
- gls2ro 9mo agoI did not crunch any numbers but I do think self-reliance with a high standard of living that means wanting and having access to everything from produce to luxury goods at a reasonable price for the majority of people cannot be achieved so easily. You of course say self reliance on essential resources and I still think for most countries that could be very expensive very fast. People are complaining about the high costs specifically of the essential products when their prices are raising. Without a serious rethinking of our society we cannot probably fix that. And nobody is willing now to vote and agree to suffer for a generation to fix this system.
- mmooss 9mo ago'Self-reliance' is an emotional appeal by nationalists to roll back free trade and other international cooperation. International cooperation brings great wealth and security, and a diversification of resources. Should each EU country also go it alone? Internationalists have built the most free, prosperous, and secure world that has ever been seen. It's hard to see how the recent nationalist, anti-trade governments have improved things for themselves or for the world.