5 ms·

You're right, but only half-way to the most realistic conclusion. Canada is stuck between a rock and a hard place. The US is increasingly hostile, because the U

by 827a 9mo ago

You're right, but only half-way to the most realistic conclusion. Canada is stuck between a rock and a hard place. The US is increasingly hostile, because the US wants control over the warming arctic naval routes and higher border security. Greenland is just a softer target for now. However, turning away from the US (~85% of Canadian trade) to China (~8%) weakens Canada and gives political cover for the US to take further hostile action. There's a game being played that, once you see it, it becomes clear that some world leaders are thinking about 2035, and other world leaders are still in 2015. I don't like it, and I genuinely feel for Canadians; they're a small, inconveniently positioned pawn that is getting caught up in something so much bigger than their country and leadership has the resources to deal with.

_DeadFred_ 9mo ago
I see we've moved from the 'he's just meme'ing, he/we know it's stupid, it's not real' to 'here's why this is 4d chess and actually good'. Edit: Since I'm throttled... Trump has been talking about Greenland since 2019, before he was surrounded with the current crop. Good try at keeping the 4D chess con going though.
- 827a 9mo ago
  I don't believe Trump has much of any idea of the larger stakes. But, he's surrounded by people who do, and Trump has a pattern of being a voicebox for whatever was said by the last person who talked to him.
  - bigbadfeline 9mo ago
    > I don't believe Trump has much of any idea of the larger stakes. But, he's surrounded by people who do, Interesting, and what are the larger stakes? What good do you see in the 4th dimension? Can we be a tad more specific, just as much as necessary to avoid sounding like stargazers detached from reality. >>> However, turning away from the US (~85% of Canadian trade) to China (~8%) weakens Canada and gives political cover for the US to take further hostile action. Maybe it's news to you, but Canada didn't "turn away from the US", the current US admin turned away from Canada, despite prior agreements like USMCA. Further, is forcing Canada to implement unfavorable trade with the US and unfavorable restrictions to China worth the risk of the US becoming a self-isolated island of no freedoms and low standard of living? Whatever Canada does, they aren't going to make the US rich or solve our problems - they aren't the source of those problems. However, China can replace the US as Canada's top trade partner fairly quickly and without straining their economy. Ditto, for the rest of the world replacing the dollar with other instruments, the process has already started thanks to the erratic and shortsighted policies of Trump's admin. >>> There's a game being played that, once you see it, I see it fairly clearly and there's nothing good for the US in it, nether now nor in 2035. >>> it becomes clear that some world leaders are thinking about 2035, and other world leaders are still in 2015. So, we're supposed to wait for the bright future (tm) and accept whatever lunatic actions are undertaken before that? Suspend reason, common sense... and the Constitution because the bright future demands it? > Trump has a pattern of being a voicebox for whatever was said by the last person who talked to him. Well, following the note-written plan of person R one day, of person V the next and of person M the day after, isn't going to generate anything other than an incoherent mess of a policies, the empirical evidence is in full agreement here. Then, what if the last person who talked to him is being a voicebox for the last person who talked to the last person who talked to him? Where would that get us?
    - 827a 9mo ago
      You shouldn't wait for the bright future, because its unlikely one is coming for anyone, unless we (the west) thread the needle through one of very few green paths. The endgame we're in now is the sunset of the anthropocene. We're less-than one generation away from wholesale human labor automation. Good will and trade relationships with other countries are inconsequential. All that matters, literally from the perspective of "the good of your people", is having the foundations in place to participate in the automation explosion that is already happening; or being a forever-serf to the countries that do (at best). Sadly, there is no "opt-out" button in this game.
      - pegasus 9mo ago
        If that's what the US administration is aiming for, you'd expect them to bulk up higher education and scientific research, instead of dismantling them. And why won't relationships to other countries matter if we're to enter a terminal crisis period? Look at high-end chip production, it takes a lot of countries to make it all work: German lenses, in Dutch lithography machines employed by Taiwanese fabs, etc.
        827a 9mo ago
        I never once said that this is what the US administration is aiming for; stop making assumptions. There are individuals in the administration who understand this, and there are individuals who only care about deporting immigrants or disrupting vaccine schedules. There is no unified administration in the United States.
        pegasus 9mo ago
        So the US is basically running around like a headless chicken, causing chaos on the world stage, and you maintain that the left leg actually was aiming the correct way, if only the right leg would cooperate all would be well. Ok, got it.
        9mo ago
- robocat 9mo ago
  He's not playing 4D chess... He's playing Risk (the board game from the 80's) where he needs Quebec and Greenland to attack Europe. Or he's been looking at a Mercator map projection and thinks Greenland is waaay bigger than it is. Fortunately I'm from New Zealand and we've been hiding off of maps for years because security by obscurity is effective against some opponents... We've even pretended it is a conspiracy against us as chaff. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omission_of_New_Zealand_from_maps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omission_of_New_Zealand_from_m... Nice article that shows a Risk map (with a big important Greenland) and no New Zealand. If someone told Trump that Quebec is full of Frenchies, maybe the rest of Canada could palm that problem off onto the US?
  - cmxch 9mo ago
    Alberta is more compatible and has resources that the US is more willing to defend.

by 827a 9mo ago

_DeadFred_ 9mo ago

I see we've moved from the 'he's just meme'ing, he/we know it's stupid, it's not real' to 'here's why this is 4d chess and actually good'. Edit: Since I'm throttled... Trump has been talking about Greenland since 2019, before he was surrounded with the current crop. Good try at keeping the 4D chess con going though.

827a 9mo ago
I don't believe Trump has much of any idea of the larger stakes. But, he's surrounded by people who do, and Trump has a pattern of being a voicebox for whatever was said by the last person who talked to him.
- bigbadfeline 9mo ago
  > I don't believe Trump has much of any idea of the larger stakes. But, he's surrounded by people who do, Interesting, and what are the larger stakes? What good do you see in the 4th dimension? Can we be a tad more specific, just as much as necessary to avoid sounding like stargazers detached from reality. >>> However, turning away from the US (~85% of Canadian trade) to China (~8%) weakens Canada and gives political cover for the US to take further hostile action. Maybe it's news to you, but Canada didn't "turn away from the US", the current US admin turned away from Canada, despite prior agreements like USMCA. Further, is forcing Canada to implement unfavorable trade with the US and unfavorable restrictions to China worth the risk of the US becoming a self-isolated island of no freedoms and low standard of living? Whatever Canada does, they aren't going to make the US rich or solve our problems - they aren't the source of those problems. However, China can replace the US as Canada's top trade partner fairly quickly and without straining their economy. Ditto, for the rest of the world replacing the dollar with other instruments, the process has already started thanks to the erratic and shortsighted policies of Trump's admin. >>> There's a game being played that, once you see it, I see it fairly clearly and there's nothing good for the US in it, nether now nor in 2035. >>> it becomes clear that some world leaders are thinking about 2035, and other world leaders are still in 2015. So, we're supposed to wait for the bright future (tm) and accept whatever lunatic actions are undertaken before that? Suspend reason, common sense... and the Constitution because the bright future demands it? > Trump has a pattern of being a voicebox for whatever was said by the last person who talked to him. Well, following the note-written plan of person R one day, of person V the next and of person M the day after, isn't going to generate anything other than an incoherent mess of a policies, the empirical evidence is in full agreement here. Then, what if the last person who talked to him is being a voicebox for the last person who talked to the last person who talked to him? Where would that get us?
  - 827a 9mo ago
    You shouldn't wait for the bright future, because its unlikely one is coming for anyone, unless we (the west) thread the needle through one of very few green paths. The endgame we're in now is the sunset of the anthropocene. We're less-than one generation away from wholesale human labor automation. Good will and trade relationships with other countries are inconsequential. All that matters, literally from the perspective of "the good of your people", is having the foundations in place to participate in the automation explosion that is already happening; or being a forever-serf to the countries that do (at best). Sadly, there is no "opt-out" button in this game.
    - pegasus 9mo ago
      If that's what the US administration is aiming for, you'd expect them to bulk up higher education and scientific research, instead of dismantling them. And why won't relationships to other countries matter if we're to enter a terminal crisis period? Look at high-end chip production, it takes a lot of countries to make it all work: German lenses, in Dutch lithography machines employed by Taiwanese fabs, etc.
      - 827a 9mo ago
        I never once said that this is what the US administration is aiming for; stop making assumptions. There are individuals in the administration who understand this, and there are individuals who only care about deporting immigrants or disrupting vaccine schedules. There is no unified administration in the United States.
        pegasus 9mo ago
        So the US is basically running around like a headless chicken, causing chaos on the world stage, and you maintain that the left leg actually was aiming the correct way, if only the right leg would cooperate all would be well. Ok, got it.
        9mo ago
robocat 9mo ago
He's not playing 4D chess... He's playing Risk (the board game from the 80's) where he needs Quebec and Greenland to attack Europe. Or he's been looking at a Mercator map projection and thinks Greenland is waaay bigger than it is. Fortunately I'm from New Zealand and we've been hiding off of maps for years because security by obscurity is effective against some opponents... We've even pretended it is a conspiracy against us as chaff. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omission_of_New_Zealand_from_maps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omission_of_New_Zealand_from_m... Nice article that shows a Risk map (with a big important Greenland) and no New Zealand. If someone told Trump that Quebec is full of Frenchies, maybe the rest of Canada could palm that problem off onto the US?
- cmxch 9mo ago
  Alberta is more compatible and has resources that the US is more willing to defend.