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I'll probably get downvoted for even suggesting this, but the EU should consider doing what Russia did (and one of the big reasons they are so resilient against

I'll probably get downvoted for even suggesting this, but the EU should consider doing what Russia did (and one of the big reasons they are so resilient against sanctions): create own alternative banking protocol to SWIFT and VISA/Mastercard equiv. (MIR), own social networks (vkontact) and big tech (ozon, yandex, etc). EU seems to be actually okay on the datacenter front. Not sure how to handle the operating system and device side - too bad Nokia is dead. Certainly they have the talent, it's the consensus and will that's required. They really shouldn't have let American tech dominate there in the first place.

Etheryte 9mo ago
Isn't this literally what the Digital Euro project is? These things take time and effort, they've been working on it since 2021 iirc.
tomjen3 9mo ago
Anyone on HN can write a Swift alternative protocol in a few days. XML documents signed with public keys is a good start. The trick is to get the banks to use them and to integrate them in their systems, but the EU is capable of writing banking regulations. Operating systems are even easier - pick your flavour of Linux - devices are all made in China anyway. Its the cloud and software part that sucks. VPSes aside, almost any managed service is US based. AI has made this even worse.
- baq 9mo ago
  Expect mistral to keep getting large cash infusions until they get competitive. Managed services weren’t needed because big tech was bending to EU regulations and buying out alternatives. The services aren’t rocket science; plenty of euro devs participated and still participate in building them, they’re just on US big tech payrolls. Expertise is there, money isn’t, yet.
- cpursley 9mo ago
  Good point. The data center hardware is there and there's plenty of open source for things like PaaS and AWS compatible systems. Bewildering that this does not exist and everyone just used AWS.
a_humean 9mo ago
If I recall correctly, Russia required that Visa/Mastercard had offices and payment services located in Russia and they simply nationalised those branches and everyone's cards continued to work within Russia with minimal disruption to internal trade.
- cpursley 9mo ago
  That's not what happened. They already had been working on MIR for a while. Then Visa/Mastercard pulled out due to sanctions over the war. The retailers actually prefer MIR now as it's newer/better tech plus lower fees and government likes it because they can track every little detail (when they were a bit in the dark before). Consumers seem to prefer the payment systems - faster transfers, QR code payments and scan face to pay terminals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_(payment_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_(payment_system)
  - general1465 9mo ago
    Which is what Europe is doing by implementing Digital Euro to replace Visa/Mastercard/Apple Pay/Google Pay https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/digital_euro/html/index.en.html https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/digital_euro/html/index.en.ht...
    - cpursley 9mo ago
      Nice. I assume there's a card system as well?
      - general1465 9mo ago
        Replacement of Visa/Mastercard implies that.
saubeidl 9mo ago
SWIFT is actually a Belgian organization. I agree with the rest of the post though.
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]

Etheryte 9mo ago

Isn't this literally what the Digital Euro project is? These things take time and effort, they've been working on it since 2021 iirc.

tomjen3 9mo ago

Anyone on HN can write a Swift alternative protocol in a few days. XML documents signed with public keys is a good start. The trick is to get the banks to use them and to integrate them in their systems, but the EU is capable of writing banking regulations. Operating systems are even easier - pick your flavour of Linux - devices are all made in China anyway. Its the cloud and software part that sucks. VPSes aside, almost any managed service is US based. AI has made this even worse.

baq 9mo ago
Expect mistral to keep getting large cash infusions until they get competitive. Managed services weren’t needed because big tech was bending to EU regulations and buying out alternatives. The services aren’t rocket science; plenty of euro devs participated and still participate in building them, they’re just on US big tech payrolls. Expertise is there, money isn’t, yet.
cpursley 9mo ago
Good point. The data center hardware is there and there's plenty of open source for things like PaaS and AWS compatible systems. Bewildering that this does not exist and everyone just used AWS.

a_humean 9mo ago

If I recall correctly, Russia required that Visa/Mastercard had offices and payment services located in Russia and they simply nationalised those branches and everyone's cards continued to work within Russia with minimal disruption to internal trade.

cpursley 9mo ago
That's not what happened. They already had been working on MIR for a while. Then Visa/Mastercard pulled out due to sanctions over the war. The retailers actually prefer MIR now as it's newer/better tech plus lower fees and government likes it because they can track every little detail (when they were a bit in the dark before). Consumers seem to prefer the payment systems - faster transfers, QR code payments and scan face to pay terminals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_(payment_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_(payment_system)
- general1465 9mo ago
  Which is what Europe is doing by implementing Digital Euro to replace Visa/Mastercard/Apple Pay/Google Pay https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/digital_euro/html/index.en.html https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/digital_euro/html/index.en.ht...
  - cpursley 9mo ago
    Nice. I assume there's a card system as well?
    - general1465 9mo ago
      Replacement of Visa/Mastercard implies that.

saubeidl 9mo ago

SWIFT is actually a Belgian organization. I agree with the rest of the post though.

deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]