5 ms·

Highly relevant to this is the fact that German electricity is some of the most expensive in the world.

by UltraSane 10mo ago

AceJohnny2 10mo ago
isn't it highly dependent on Russian gas too?
- eru 10mo ago
  Not anymore, I guess.
- uecker 10mo ago
  Germany stopped importing Russian gas after the start of the Ukraine war. One also has to understand that only a small fraction of gas use in Germany is for generation of electricity and much bigger part is for heating. Finally, the amount of electricity generated from gas is around 80 TWh and did not increase after shutting down nuclear.
ca1f 10mo ago
It really is not. This is misinformation spread mostly by the right winged party in germany and conservatives to some extent to. Electricity in Germany can look expensive at first sight if you're quoting legacy household tariffs that many existing customers are still on, because they never switch provider / tariff. But that's not representative of what people pay if they sign a new contract today: the market for new contracts is typically several cents/kWh cheaper than those old existing tariffs stuck at their higher prices. So "Germany has the highest electricity prices" is at best an incomplete claim, it depends heavily on which tariff cohort you refer to (legacy vs new contracts, default supply vs competitive offers), and people on the internet somehow always fall for this, often picking the worst bucket to make a political point. Sources: https://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/energiemonitor-strompreis-gaspreis-erneuerbare-energien-ausbau https://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/energiemonitor-strompreis-gas... Unfortunately it's in german but my point stands: for new customers in germany the price per kwh is even lower than what france pays on average.
- uecker 10mo ago
  One should also point out that the household price is determined by many factors and does not reflect cost of generation.
  - quotemstr 10mo ago
    Your energy prices are so high that century-old factories are shutting down and your export sector is collapsing. Yet you guys keep a (presumably) straight face while insisting that the truth is the opposite of what anyone with eyeballs can see. It'd be hilarious if it weren't so sad.
    - uecker 10mo ago
      Sad is the low intellectual level of this discussion where people draw conclusions from insufficient understanding of the data (or more likely, they believe what they read somewhere without even looking at data - which I assume is the case for you - as you do not provide logical arguments and merely repeat the talking points from political discussions, which are worded to evoke an emotional reaction "dying century-old factories" "collapsing"). The prices households or industry pays are only indirectly related to the generation cost and a lot more with fees, so this is something to study. Also, if you compare to France, EDF was renationalized and now contributes to the relative high amount of government debt compared to GDP.
      - quotemstr 10mo ago
        LOL. The wonderful thing about reality is that it's deaf to this kind of motivated reasoning. Enjoy your lignite and industrial collapse. When you're shivering at night, your children can't get jobs, and your country has no voice in global affairs, you can console yourself with the idea you at least tried reduced global carbon emissions by 0.1%.
      - UltraSane 10mo ago
        It is a real problem and is being addressed Subsidised electricity price set at 5 euro cents per kWh until 2028 https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/german-coalition-agrees-subsidised-power-price-industry-2025-11-13/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/german-coalition-agr... Germany cuts costs for electricity-intensive companies from 1 January 2026: the new industrial electricity price https://www.gleisslutz.com/en/know-how/germany-cuts-costs-electricity-intensive-companies-1-january-2026-new-industrial-electricity-price https://www.gleisslutz.com/en/know-how/germany-cuts-costs-el... Are high electricity prices a threat to Germany's industry? https://www.dw.com/en/high-electricity-prices-a-threat-to-germanys-industry/a-71644198 https://www.dw.com/en/high-electricity-prices-a-threat-to-ge... Deindustrialization in Germany: Energy Costs Driving Industries Abroad https://ceinterim.com/deindustrialization-in-germany/ https://ceinterim.com/deindustrialization-in-germany/

Highly relevant to this is the fact that German electricity is some of the most expensive in the world.

AceJohnny2 10mo ago

isn't it highly dependent on Russian gas too?

eru 10mo ago
Not anymore, I guess.
uecker 10mo ago
Germany stopped importing Russian gas after the start of the Ukraine war. One also has to understand that only a small fraction of gas use in Germany is for generation of electricity and much bigger part is for heating. Finally, the amount of electricity generated from gas is around 80 TWh and did not increase after shutting down nuclear.

ca1f 10mo ago

It really is not. This is misinformation spread mostly by the right winged party in germany and conservatives to some extent to. Electricity in Germany can look expensive at first sight if you're quoting legacy household tariffs that many existing customers are still on, because they never switch provider / tariff. But that's not representative of what people pay if they sign a new contract today: the market for new contracts is typically several cents/kWh cheaper than those old existing tariffs stuck at their higher prices. So "Germany has the highest electricity prices" is at best an incomplete claim, it depends heavily on which tariff cohort you refer to (legacy vs new contracts, default supply vs competitive offers), and people on the internet somehow always fall for this, often picking the worst bucket to make a political point. Sources: https://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/energiemonitor-strompreis-gaspreis-erneuerbare-energien-ausbau https://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/energiemonitor-strompreis-gas... Unfortunately it's in german but my point stands: for new customers in germany the price per kwh is even lower than what france pays on average.

uecker 10mo ago
One should also point out that the household price is determined by many factors and does not reflect cost of generation.
- quotemstr 10mo ago
  Your energy prices are so high that century-old factories are shutting down and your export sector is collapsing. Yet you guys keep a (presumably) straight face while insisting that the truth is the opposite of what anyone with eyeballs can see. It'd be hilarious if it weren't so sad.
  - uecker 10mo ago
    Sad is the low intellectual level of this discussion where people draw conclusions from insufficient understanding of the data (or more likely, they believe what they read somewhere without even looking at data - which I assume is the case for you - as you do not provide logical arguments and merely repeat the talking points from political discussions, which are worded to evoke an emotional reaction "dying century-old factories" "collapsing"). The prices households or industry pays are only indirectly related to the generation cost and a lot more with fees, so this is something to study. Also, if you compare to France, EDF was renationalized and now contributes to the relative high amount of government debt compared to GDP.
    - quotemstr 10mo ago
      LOL. The wonderful thing about reality is that it's deaf to this kind of motivated reasoning. Enjoy your lignite and industrial collapse. When you're shivering at night, your children can't get jobs, and your country has no voice in global affairs, you can console yourself with the idea you at least tried reduced global carbon emissions by 0.1%.
    - UltraSane 10mo ago
      It is a real problem and is being addressed Subsidised electricity price set at 5 euro cents per kWh until 2028 https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/german-coalition-agrees-subsidised-power-price-industry-2025-11-13/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/german-coalition-agr... Germany cuts costs for electricity-intensive companies from 1 January 2026: the new industrial electricity price https://www.gleisslutz.com/en/know-how/germany-cuts-costs-electricity-intensive-companies-1-january-2026-new-industrial-electricity-price https://www.gleisslutz.com/en/know-how/germany-cuts-costs-el... Are high electricity prices a threat to Germany's industry? https://www.dw.com/en/high-electricity-prices-a-threat-to-germanys-industry/a-71644198 https://www.dw.com/en/high-electricity-prices-a-threat-to-ge... Deindustrialization in Germany: Energy Costs Driving Industries Abroad https://ceinterim.com/deindustrialization-in-germany/ https://ceinterim.com/deindustrialization-in-germany/