4 ms·

How many renters would even want to replace appliances, get new insulation installed, get all their lights replaced, etc.? I had a bunch of work done after a k

by ghaff 10mo ago

How many renters would even want to replace appliances, get new insulation installed, get all their lights replaced, etc.? I had a bunch of work done after a kitchen fire in my house and it did genuinely cut my electrical bill. It also cost a lot of money and is something I wouldn't have done by choice especially in a rental property.

roughly 10mo ago
I’ve lived in my rental for ~15 years now (rent control) - to be honest, if I’d known when I moved in how long I’d be here, I’d have paid for some upgrades. It’s not equity, but I do still live here.
- fragmede 10mo ago
  Do you plan on moving any time soon? The best time to plant a tree was ten years ago. The second best time is now.
  - roughly 10mo ago
    Oh I know. Started tackling a couple things already, and it does make a difference. The two I really can’t do on my own that I absolutely would are replace the windows and put in solar.
    - ghaff 9mo ago
      I've had a bunch of windows replaced over time. It is expensive but some had gotten really ugly looking--in addition to being, I'm sure very inefficient. I have oil heat and have just never seen the justification for solar especially given my electrical usage and all the scammy solar stuff out there.
    - fragmede 9mo ago
      FWIW, https://indowwindows.com/ https://indowwindows.com/ (San Francisco) make window inserts that are the exact same size as the existing window, plus a wooden frame, so they look exactly like the existing windows. Mostly for keeping the exterior look of buildings in SF due to regulations, they block out sound and help with temperature control. They're pricey tho. As for solar. If you have the budget and the disaster preparedness for it, there are some camping grade solar + battery systems that aren't house-grade, but great for power outages. The systems range from small (affordable), to the 1000 Plus, consisting of a battery with 1264Wh capacity and 120 v inverter, along with 200W of solar panels. That one'll run. you $1,500.
      - roughly 9mo ago
        Do you have an Indow? I’ve been eyeballing them for a while, but they’re pricy enough I haven’t been willing to call the shot yet. I do have a pretty big bluetti and a couple panels for it - I also grabbed an RV fridge for storing food. Naturally, the capitalist gods smiled upon my financial offering and have blessed me with steady power since then.
- neilv 10mo ago
  Even without rent control, being known by the landlord as a reliable tenant in a troubled apartment/building... is a way to eventually have one of the least expensive apartments in an area, through a series of only small rent increases.[1] Every little repair and upgrade I've made has been more than worthwhile, and I only wish I had made more. Though, a friend in a nicer place went and made a deal with his landlord, for landlord to pay for only materials for substantial DIY renovation friend would do. Suddenly, his apartment had higher market value... [1] Unless landlord participates in RealPage/YieldStar, and is pushed to illegal price-fixing.
antonymoose 10mo ago
You would certainly need to be a serious long-term renter. I purchased a home with a walk-out basement (brick exterior, cinder block foundation, >80% above grade). As it turned out, the prior owners had pulled a fast one and faked their framing with 1x4s and added no insulation. Our monthly power bills ranged from 400-500$ on a 2,000 sqft home. I spent most of last year gutting the interior of the basement, framing, plumbing, electrical, insulation (R-13 fiberglass batt insulation), Sheetrock, paint, trim, flooring (laminate @ 2$ per sqft). I spent approximately $10k on this project doing the labor myself. As a result, my bills are now in the 200-250 range. I had the insulation work done by 01/2025 for context. So, perhaps a new efficient water heater? But any serious work is unlikely to be worth the costs.
- kubb 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  - antonymoose 10mo ago
    If you read my comment you would find that I own my own home?
  - OoooooooO 10mo ago
    "I purchased"
- lostlogin 10mo ago
  Worst case scenario that’s a 5.5 year ROI. That seems good.
  - antisthenes 10mo ago
    The labor put in would be _at least_ as much as materials, so $20k total cost for this project to lower the bills from $450 to $225 on average. That puts it roughly at 7.5 year ROI. How many renters rent a single space for that long? There goes the answer to the article. It's a great project if it's your forever home, though.
taeric 10mo ago
More directly, how many would want to pay for it to happen? Easy to say they would want the upgrade. Hard to say they would want increased rents.
Aurornis 10mo ago
Replacing kitchen appliances is a quick job for common pieces like refrigerators. Most other kitchen appliances can be done in a day even if they're built-in as long as you get something that occupies the same space. Insulation upgrades are heavy remodel jobs: Opening the walls requires people to leave the space for the duration of the job. Even if you can stack contractors back to back perfectly it's still a lot of time and displacement. These things usually happen between renters when the space is vacant. In larger units you can some times shuffle renters between similar spaces but it's a huge pain and they usually don't want to do it.
- ghaff 10mo ago
  Some things are less standardized than others. That said my kitchen was totally redone after a fire. Dishwasher was basically a 1 for 1 replacement pre-fire but everything else had to be redone.
  - Aurornis 10mo ago
    Most kitchen appliances are very standardized. Refrigerators come in certain widths (30", 32", 34"). Over the range microwaves are a standard size. Dishwashers fit into a 24" wide space unless you specifically get a compact or oversized dishwasher (rare). Ovens come in certain widths. It's rare to have a kitchen appliance that requires a specialized space that you have to build the kitchen around. Unless you're dealing with odd very high end appliances, a skilled installer can almost always find something from the local home store that fits into the old space. (Source: Time spent in construction and renovation)
    - ghaff 10mo ago
      Pre-fire, I got cabinet above fridge taken out because fridges have basically gotten taller. And the over-the-range microwave is what caused the fire in the middle of the night in the first place while I was sleeping. Dishwashers are pretty standard as are stovetop widths although I decided to shift to a range from my prior double ovens and cooktop.
0x1ch 10mo ago
Many. My entire apartment is filled with large single pane windows. There's zero draft sealing at any of them, nor the front door. I likely pay an additional $100 in electricity a month due to this. It was noticeably reduced when I took the time to 3M wrap all my windows one winter, but I didn't want to do it again.
- lesuorac 10mo ago
  Could try making inserts for the windows so you can remove them in spring.
Nextgrid 10mo ago
I've done upgrades in rented apartments at my own cost because finding a rental with said upgrades already done was either outright impossible or would've cost even more in rent than the cost of the upgrades spread out over the leasing period.

by ghaff 10mo ago

roughly 10mo ago

I’ve lived in my rental for ~15 years now (rent control) - to be honest, if I’d known when I moved in how long I’d be here, I’d have paid for some upgrades. It’s not equity, but I do still live here.

fragmede 10mo ago
Do you plan on moving any time soon? The best time to plant a tree was ten years ago. The second best time is now.
- roughly 10mo ago
  Oh I know. Started tackling a couple things already, and it does make a difference. The two I really can’t do on my own that I absolutely would are replace the windows and put in solar.
  - ghaff 9mo ago
    I've had a bunch of windows replaced over time. It is expensive but some had gotten really ugly looking--in addition to being, I'm sure very inefficient. I have oil heat and have just never seen the justification for solar especially given my electrical usage and all the scammy solar stuff out there.
  - fragmede 9mo ago
    FWIW, https://indowwindows.com/ https://indowwindows.com/ (San Francisco) make window inserts that are the exact same size as the existing window, plus a wooden frame, so they look exactly like the existing windows. Mostly for keeping the exterior look of buildings in SF due to regulations, they block out sound and help with temperature control. They're pricey tho. As for solar. If you have the budget and the disaster preparedness for it, there are some camping grade solar + battery systems that aren't house-grade, but great for power outages. The systems range from small (affordable), to the 1000 Plus, consisting of a battery with 1264Wh capacity and 120 v inverter, along with 200W of solar panels. That one'll run. you $1,500.
    - roughly 9mo ago
      Do you have an Indow? I’ve been eyeballing them for a while, but they’re pricy enough I haven’t been willing to call the shot yet. I do have a pretty big bluetti and a couple panels for it - I also grabbed an RV fridge for storing food. Naturally, the capitalist gods smiled upon my financial offering and have blessed me with steady power since then.
neilv 10mo ago
Even without rent control, being known by the landlord as a reliable tenant in a troubled apartment/building... is a way to eventually have one of the least expensive apartments in an area, through a series of only small rent increases.[1] Every little repair and upgrade I've made has been more than worthwhile, and I only wish I had made more. Though, a friend in a nicer place went and made a deal with his landlord, for landlord to pay for only materials for substantial DIY renovation friend would do. Suddenly, his apartment had higher market value... [1] Unless landlord participates in RealPage/YieldStar, and is pushed to illegal price-fixing.

antonymoose 10mo ago

You would certainly need to be a serious long-term renter. I purchased a home with a walk-out basement (brick exterior, cinder block foundation, >80% above grade). As it turned out, the prior owners had pulled a fast one and faked their framing with 1x4s and added no insulation. Our monthly power bills ranged from 400-500$ on a 2,000 sqft home. I spent most of last year gutting the interior of the basement, framing, plumbing, electrical, insulation (R-13 fiberglass batt insulation), Sheetrock, paint, trim, flooring (laminate @ 2$ per sqft). I spent approximately $10k on this project doing the labor myself. As a result, my bills are now in the 200-250 range. I had the insulation work done by 01/2025 for context. So, perhaps a new efficient water heater? But any serious work is unlikely to be worth the costs.

kubb 10mo ago
[flagged]
- antonymoose 10mo ago
  If you read my comment you would find that I own my own home?
- OoooooooO 10mo ago
  "I purchased"
lostlogin 10mo ago
Worst case scenario that’s a 5.5 year ROI. That seems good.
- antisthenes 10mo ago
  The labor put in would be _at least_ as much as materials, so $20k total cost for this project to lower the bills from $450 to $225 on average. That puts it roughly at 7.5 year ROI. How many renters rent a single space for that long? There goes the answer to the article. It's a great project if it's your forever home, though.

taeric 10mo ago

More directly, how many would want to pay for it to happen? Easy to say they would want the upgrade. Hard to say they would want increased rents.

Aurornis 10mo ago

Replacing kitchen appliances is a quick job for common pieces like refrigerators. Most other kitchen appliances can be done in a day even if they're built-in as long as you get something that occupies the same space. Insulation upgrades are heavy remodel jobs: Opening the walls requires people to leave the space for the duration of the job. Even if you can stack contractors back to back perfectly it's still a lot of time and displacement. These things usually happen between renters when the space is vacant. In larger units you can some times shuffle renters between similar spaces but it's a huge pain and they usually don't want to do it.

ghaff 10mo ago
Some things are less standardized than others. That said my kitchen was totally redone after a fire. Dishwasher was basically a 1 for 1 replacement pre-fire but everything else had to be redone.
- Aurornis 10mo ago
  Most kitchen appliances are very standardized. Refrigerators come in certain widths (30", 32", 34"). Over the range microwaves are a standard size. Dishwashers fit into a 24" wide space unless you specifically get a compact or oversized dishwasher (rare). Ovens come in certain widths. It's rare to have a kitchen appliance that requires a specialized space that you have to build the kitchen around. Unless you're dealing with odd very high end appliances, a skilled installer can almost always find something from the local home store that fits into the old space. (Source: Time spent in construction and renovation)
  - ghaff 10mo ago
    Pre-fire, I got cabinet above fridge taken out because fridges have basically gotten taller. And the over-the-range microwave is what caused the fire in the middle of the night in the first place while I was sleeping. Dishwashers are pretty standard as are stovetop widths although I decided to shift to a range from my prior double ovens and cooktop.

0x1ch 10mo ago

Many. My entire apartment is filled with large single pane windows. There's zero draft sealing at any of them, nor the front door. I likely pay an additional $100 in electricity a month due to this. It was noticeably reduced when I took the time to 3M wrap all my windows one winter, but I didn't want to do it again.

lesuorac 10mo ago
Could try making inserts for the windows so you can remove them in spring.

Nextgrid 10mo ago

I've done upgrades in rented apartments at my own cost because finding a rental with said upgrades already done was either outright impossible or would've cost even more in rent than the cost of the upgrades spread out over the leasing period.