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I didn't say anyone can become Michelangelo. I said anyone can do this level of work. That is, the exact same thing he did when he was 12, which is a master st

by speff 9mo ago

I didn't say anyone can become Michelangelo. I said anyone can do this level of work. That is, the exact same thing he did when he was 12, which is a master study. He didn't create the design - he copied a previous work and added color to find out what Schongauer's thought process was when making the original piece.

MontyCarloHall 9mo ago
I very much doubt the majority of adults with sufficient practice could do this level of work. I can say with 100% certainty that an infinitesimal minority of 12 year olds with sufficient practice could do this level of work.
- speff 9mo ago
  What are you basing this off of? Do you actually have any experience making art? Or is this just learned helplessness talking? Also please stop implying I said any 12 year old can do this. I didn't. Once again, I said anyone who puts in the time can do what 12-year old Michelangelo did.
  - MontyCarloHall 9mo ago
    >What are you basing this off of? Do you actually have any experience making art? Or is this just learned helplessness talking? I've done ≥weekly life drawing classes for 20+ years, and have observed the distribution of progress people make over time. Based on my observations and conversations with my teachers, I agree with you that a nontrivial fraction of adults starting with zero artistic ability can be trained to an advanced degree. But I disagree that this holds true for "anyone"; a larger fraction cannot be trained beyond a basic level. >Also please stop implying I said any 12 year old can do this. I didn't. You literally said: "It's impressive that he did it at 12, but he had years of focused practice under his belt before he did this one. Anyone can do this level of work - they just need to actually learn it." To me, that heavily implies any 12 year old with sufficient training is encompassed by that "anyone."

by speff 9mo ago

MontyCarloHall 9mo ago

I very much doubt the majority of adults with sufficient practice could do this level of work. I can say with 100% certainty that an infinitesimal minority of 12 year olds with sufficient practice could do this level of work.

speff 9mo ago
What are you basing this off of? Do you actually have any experience making art? Or is this just learned helplessness talking? Also please stop implying I said any 12 year old can do this. I didn't. Once again, I said anyone who puts in the time can do what 12-year old Michelangelo did.
- MontyCarloHall 9mo ago
  >What are you basing this off of? Do you actually have any experience making art? Or is this just learned helplessness talking? I've done ≥weekly life drawing classes for 20+ years, and have observed the distribution of progress people make over time. Based on my observations and conversations with my teachers, I agree with you that a nontrivial fraction of adults starting with zero artistic ability can be trained to an advanced degree. But I disagree that this holds true for "anyone"; a larger fraction cannot be trained beyond a basic level. >Also please stop implying I said any 12 year old can do this. I didn't. You literally said: "It's impressive that he did it at 12, but he had years of focused practice under his belt before he did this one. Anyone can do this level of work - they just need to actually learn it." To me, that heavily implies any 12 year old with sufficient training is encompassed by that "anyone."