5 ms·

Same reason vercel buys open source... it makes cloudflare always a great deployment option for all Astro sites, which in turn helps cloudflare's core business.

by mpeg 9mo ago

Same reason vercel buys open source... it makes cloudflare always a great deployment option for all Astro sites, which in turn helps cloudflare's core business. For example, Cloudflare released their vite plugin which makes it effortless for frameworks that use the vite env API to run inside workerd (meaning you get to use cloudflare service bindings in dev) back in April and only React Router had support for it. Nextjs has no support, the draft PR to add support for Sveltekit has been parked until the next major version, Astro only just added support in their beta 6.0 release 3 days ago With this acquisition, Astro will probably be first to future updates that increase compatibility with cloudflare. It's smart, and was probably not very expensive (more of an acqui-hire)

jtbaker 9mo ago
> Nextjs has no support From what I remember, you can't even run a NextJS app through vite?
- mpeg 9mo ago
  Yes, that's part of the problem, deploying nextjs to cloudflare in the first place used to be an absolute nightmare, let alone the dev experience (I think it's better now)
  - sp4cec0wb0y 9mo ago
    Wasn't this a decision made by Vercel to incentivize people using Vercel for NextJS apps? I can't recall.
  - jamieatlason 9mo ago
    It's gotten a lot better since last year with OpenNext. Last I tested was Next.js 15 though. Who knows what Vercel has broken with Next.js 16. https://opennext.js.org/cloudflare https://opennext.js.org/cloudflare
- mattgreenrocks 9mo ago
  This is insane to me, and validates my irrational dislike of next.
  - jtbaker 9mo ago
    100% rational. Nuxt/Astro FTW.
  - hungryhobbit 9mo ago
    Definitely irrational. There are lots of logical reasons to dislike Next (like the fact that they pile new shiny bit on top of new shiny bit without caring about the regular user experience) ... but being mad that it can't run on Vite is silly. It's like being mad that Rails can't run on Python, or that React can't run on jQuery. Next already has its own build system, so of course it doesn't work with another build system.
    - mattgreenrocks 9mo ago
      Isn’t the next.js build system known for being slow/memory hungry?
      - pjmlp 9mo ago
        For those stuck in the past yes, they have replaced it with a Rust based toolchain, as is so fashionable nowadays.
      - mzronek 9mo ago
        Luckily DX is much better now with Turbopack as a bundler. First they improved the dev server, now with Turbo builds the production builds are faster as well. Still not fully stable in my opinion, but they will get there. It's also wise to use monorepo orchestration with build caching like Turborepo. They did well on the turbo stuff, no doubt about it. The main bottleneck with big projects in my experience is Typescript. Looking forward to the Go rewrite. :)
- Vinnl 9mo ago
  That doesn't sound too preposterous; I wouldn't assume you'd be able to run a React Router project on Turbopack or Webpack either, and Next.js I think has a way more intricate dependence on the bundler to power a significant chunk of its features.
cornholio 9mo ago
So, cloudification: lock the customer into a complex cloud dependent solution they can't easily migrate to some other commodity infrastructure provider.
- taraindara 9mo ago
  The easier/convenient a cloud makes it for a business to use, the more the industry will continue to trend towards lock in
  - ghurtado 9mo ago
    I don't see the relation between those two
    - mikodin 9mo ago
      I essentially do a 1 click deployment for my personal site with Cloudflare. I don't want to deal with the cloud infra for my personal site. I could, I've done it in corporate, I've done it for my startup 2 years ago. But I'm rusty, I don't know what the latest people are using for configuration, etc. Because there is 1 click with CF or Vercel and I don't have to think about it—I don't. If they increase their price it likely wouldn't be enough friction for me dust off the rust. I think this is the relation. I'm not locked in, it's just HTML pages, but I am through my own habit energy, tech changing, and what I want to put effort into, which is not infra and serving my site.
- mynameisvlad 9mo ago
  What lock in? They explicitly said: > Staying open to all was a non-negotiable requirement for both us and for Cloudflare. They have deployment guides for practically every provider out there: https://docs.astro.build/en/guides/deploy/ https://docs.astro.build/en/guides/deploy/ And at the end of the day, most of the deployment is just deploying a static site... Which you can do practically anywhere.
  - mplewis 9mo ago
Y_Y 9mo ago
This reads like marketing copy. Maybe it reflects your actual feelings but it's hard to imagine that if you don't write like a human.
- satvikpendem 9mo ago
  It does not read like marketing copy to me, what part of talking about draft PRs and framrworks sounds like marketing speak? They're right that CloudFlare having priority access to new Astro features is beneficial for them.
- ghurtado 9mo ago
  What a bizarre comment. What part of it was "not human" in your opinion?
- mpeg 9mo ago
  Not sure how to feel about this! I’ve been known to use em dashes every now and then, but I am indeed a fellow human. I’m close to the vite plugin in particular and have contributed to multiple frameworks around cf integration (simply because I use cf), that’s why I chose it as an example (and it’s one of Astro 6’s biggest features)
jjmarr 9mo ago
I use Astro so I could make my blog a static site and deploy it to Cloudflare pages. I was impressed since I got interactive compilation and state tracking of how many exercises the user completed. https://jjmarr.com/blog/structured-bindings-structs/ https://jjmarr.com/blog/structured-bindings-structs/
- slfreference 9mo ago
  I have a question. Why can't Whatsapp or Meta make a markdown INFO only website for small business owners (e.g. technicians, shopkeepers, handyman, etc) using their immense reach and clout. The method of using whatsapp groups to keep users updated of the latest updates is not scalable or open.
  - basch 9mo ago
    too big to deliver simple solutions? youre making way too much sense and this would die in committee or be replaced when someone new needs to justify themselves by launching a new product to supplant an existing one.
  - deaux 9mo ago
    Because they much rather have those small businesses use a Facebook page for that purpose, which is the status quo in the West.
Seattle3503 9mo ago
So when folks say they want to see big companies invest in open source, this is what that looks like. CF could have kept coasting on what Astro was building, but instead they are paying for it. But in return they get a lot of control.
- skybrian 9mo ago
  Well, hopefully more like Go's relationship with Google? The company that pays the bills is their first and most important customer, but as far as I can tell from the outside, the Go team makes its own plans and management doesn't pull rank.
  - Seattle3503 9mo ago
    Definitely!
  - knowitnone3 9mo ago
    You know this because you work on the Go team or part of google management?
    - skybrian 9mo ago
      > as far as I can tell from the outside Anyone with actual knowledge, feel free to chime in.
- ignoramous 9mo ago
  > CF could have kept coasting on what Astro was building, but instead they are paying for it. But in return they get a lot of control. Supabase pioneered the modern implementation of this model. Probably, RedHat before it? Google also tend to "acquihire" maintainers of popular FOSS projects, like Ben Goodger (Firefox), Scott Remnant (Upstart), Junio Hamano (Git), Guido von Rossum (Python).

by mpeg 9mo ago

jtbaker 9mo ago

> Nextjs has no support From what I remember, you can't even run a NextJS app through vite?

mpeg 9mo ago
Yes, that's part of the problem, deploying nextjs to cloudflare in the first place used to be an absolute nightmare, let alone the dev experience (I think it's better now)
- sp4cec0wb0y 9mo ago
  Wasn't this a decision made by Vercel to incentivize people using Vercel for NextJS apps? I can't recall.
- jamieatlason 9mo ago
  It's gotten a lot better since last year with OpenNext. Last I tested was Next.js 15 though. Who knows what Vercel has broken with Next.js 16. https://opennext.js.org/cloudflare https://opennext.js.org/cloudflare
mattgreenrocks 9mo ago
This is insane to me, and validates my irrational dislike of next.
- jtbaker 9mo ago
  100% rational. Nuxt/Astro FTW.
- hungryhobbit 9mo ago
  Definitely irrational. There are lots of logical reasons to dislike Next (like the fact that they pile new shiny bit on top of new shiny bit without caring about the regular user experience) ... but being mad that it can't run on Vite is silly. It's like being mad that Rails can't run on Python, or that React can't run on jQuery. Next already has its own build system, so of course it doesn't work with another build system.
  - mattgreenrocks 9mo ago
    Isn’t the next.js build system known for being slow/memory hungry?
    - pjmlp 9mo ago
      For those stuck in the past yes, they have replaced it with a Rust based toolchain, as is so fashionable nowadays.
    - mzronek 9mo ago
      Luckily DX is much better now with Turbopack as a bundler. First they improved the dev server, now with Turbo builds the production builds are faster as well. Still not fully stable in my opinion, but they will get there. It's also wise to use monorepo orchestration with build caching like Turborepo. They did well on the turbo stuff, no doubt about it. The main bottleneck with big projects in my experience is Typescript. Looking forward to the Go rewrite. :)
Vinnl 9mo ago
That doesn't sound too preposterous; I wouldn't assume you'd be able to run a React Router project on Turbopack or Webpack either, and Next.js I think has a way more intricate dependence on the bundler to power a significant chunk of its features.

cornholio 9mo ago

So, cloudification: lock the customer into a complex cloud dependent solution they can't easily migrate to some other commodity infrastructure provider.

taraindara 9mo ago
The easier/convenient a cloud makes it for a business to use, the more the industry will continue to trend towards lock in
- ghurtado 9mo ago
  I don't see the relation between those two
  - mikodin 9mo ago
    I essentially do a 1 click deployment for my personal site with Cloudflare. I don't want to deal with the cloud infra for my personal site. I could, I've done it in corporate, I've done it for my startup 2 years ago. But I'm rusty, I don't know what the latest people are using for configuration, etc. Because there is 1 click with CF or Vercel and I don't have to think about it—I don't. If they increase their price it likely wouldn't be enough friction for me dust off the rust. I think this is the relation. I'm not locked in, it's just HTML pages, but I am through my own habit energy, tech changing, and what I want to put effort into, which is not infra and serving my site.
mynameisvlad 9mo ago
What lock in? They explicitly said: > Staying open to all was a non-negotiable requirement for both us and for Cloudflare. They have deployment guides for practically every provider out there: https://docs.astro.build/en/guides/deploy/ https://docs.astro.build/en/guides/deploy/ And at the end of the day, most of the deployment is just deploying a static site... Which you can do practically anywhere.
- mplewis 9mo ago

Y_Y 9mo ago

This reads like marketing copy. Maybe it reflects your actual feelings but it's hard to imagine that if you don't write like a human.

satvikpendem 9mo ago
It does not read like marketing copy to me, what part of talking about draft PRs and framrworks sounds like marketing speak? They're right that CloudFlare having priority access to new Astro features is beneficial for them.
ghurtado 9mo ago
What a bizarre comment. What part of it was "not human" in your opinion?
mpeg 9mo ago
Not sure how to feel about this! I’ve been known to use em dashes every now and then, but I am indeed a fellow human. I’m close to the vite plugin in particular and have contributed to multiple frameworks around cf integration (simply because I use cf), that’s why I chose it as an example (and it’s one of Astro 6’s biggest features)

jjmarr 9mo ago

I use Astro so I could make my blog a static site and deploy it to Cloudflare pages. I was impressed since I got interactive compilation and state tracking of how many exercises the user completed. https://jjmarr.com/blog/structured-bindings-structs/ https://jjmarr.com/blog/structured-bindings-structs/

slfreference 9mo ago
I have a question. Why can't Whatsapp or Meta make a markdown INFO only website for small business owners (e.g. technicians, shopkeepers, handyman, etc) using their immense reach and clout. The method of using whatsapp groups to keep users updated of the latest updates is not scalable or open.
- basch 9mo ago
  too big to deliver simple solutions? youre making way too much sense and this would die in committee or be replaced when someone new needs to justify themselves by launching a new product to supplant an existing one.
- deaux 9mo ago
  Because they much rather have those small businesses use a Facebook page for that purpose, which is the status quo in the West.

Seattle3503 9mo ago

So when folks say they want to see big companies invest in open source, this is what that looks like. CF could have kept coasting on what Astro was building, but instead they are paying for it. But in return they get a lot of control.

skybrian 9mo ago
Well, hopefully more like Go's relationship with Google? The company that pays the bills is their first and most important customer, but as far as I can tell from the outside, the Go team makes its own plans and management doesn't pull rank.
- Seattle3503 9mo ago
  Definitely!
- knowitnone3 9mo ago
  You know this because you work on the Go team or part of google management?
  - skybrian 9mo ago
    > as far as I can tell from the outside Anyone with actual knowledge, feel free to chime in.
ignoramous 9mo ago
> CF could have kept coasting on what Astro was building, but instead they are paying for it. But in return they get a lot of control. Supabase pioneered the modern implementation of this model. Probably, RedHat before it? Google also tend to "acquihire" maintainers of popular FOSS projects, like Ben Goodger (Firefox), Scott Remnant (Upstart), Junio Hamano (Git), Guido von Rossum (Python).