5 ms·

Minnesota is under siege. This cannot stand

51 points by fizl 9mo ago

buellerbueller 9mo ago
General Strike. Shut down the economy until ICE is out. Put the Trump administration under economic siege. It is peaceful, and it will work.
- DoctorOW 9mo ago
  The problem I've found is coordinating. The idea that we need a sizable chunk of the country to all work together in leaderless organization, is noble but lofty. Every attempt I've ever seen is something extremely easy for the feds to disrupt like a Facebook, Reddit, or Discord group, where everyone collectively bikesheds and no decisions get made.
  - buellerbueller 9mo ago
    Completely agree; it's a classic game theory problem. One could start with every union that could be gotten on board, perhaps?
- mindslight 9mo ago
  I always see "general strike" mentioned as if it's some powerful solution to work towards. But even ignoring the practicalities of organizing such a thing, I don't understand how the effects would be helpful. It's not like the brownshirts would go on strike, Trump is happy to print trillions of dollars in new debt, it would impoverish many of the very people working against this, and the type of society-wrecking chaos would appear to be exactly what Trump (ie his foreign handlers) want.
  - buellerbueller 9mo ago
    It will very definitely crash the economy, eventually, regardless of the known issues you point out.
    - mindslight 9mo ago
      Yes, sure. But this appears to be one of Trump's goals as well. Every single policy seems designed to irredeemably wreck our country - riffing off of longstanding frustrations of Republicans and ostensibly framed in terms of addressing them so they cheer in support, but implemented so terribly wrong that it's hard to keep assuming mere incompetence rather than an active hybrid warfare attack.
diogenescynic 9mo ago
[flagged]
- jmathai 9mo ago
  > when Obama deported 3M+ illegals, the sanctuary cities helped and the media didn't cover it like it was Nazi Germany Perhaps it has to do with the method used? I don't think most people are in favor of illegal immigration. That would be an extremist view. Most people are probably somewhere in the middle and I don't think that band is too wide.
  - diogenescynic 9mo ago
    >Perhaps it has to do with the method used? It was different because the sanctuary cities turned over lists of the students whose parents weren't citizens. It made it a lot easier. Also no media coverage. You won't know if the tactics were any different because democrat cities actually complied with the law. Again, it goes to democrats being hypocrites and selectively caring/enforcing issues when they think people are paying attention. >I don't think most people are in favor of illegal immigration. That would be an extremist view. Most people are probably somewhere in the middle and I don't think that band is too wide. Yep, I live in California and we require immigration for a lot of jobs and industries. I'm not against immigration... in a past life I worked in immigration law. I am against this selective enforcement of the law depending on who is the President. You can't run a country like this.
    - nullocator 9mo ago
      many citations needed. You seem so fixated on communities not helping ICE to your satisfaction that you're blinded by ICE's atrocities. I guess your admission that you are an ICE employee or adjacent is enough explanation for that though.
      - diogenescynic 9mo ago
        Immigration law != Law enforcement I worked for immigrants (and the companies sponsoring immigrants). That said I am nuanced individual and believe in legal immigration and I think Biden letting in tens of millions illegally and all these sanctuary cities was eventually going to create some kind of legal conflict. It's obvious that municipal law cannot supersede federal law.
thomassmith65 9mo ago
I don't know what gets through to the average voter. Maybe Jesse Ventura: https://youtube.com/watch?v=udSUbBhA8I0 https://youtube.com/watch?v=udSUbBhA8I0
- diogenescynic 9mo ago
  We're going to have to wait until Boomers age out to get any form of common sense government. They've absolutely been the most damaging generation and will leave a wake of destruction for future generations to recover (or not) from.
  - aebtebeten 9mo ago
    Waiting doesn't work; ask me how I know :-) (I voted with my feet instead: it only takes ~2 years to learn a language) Actual substantive comment: My personal theory (looking from this side of the Atlantic) is that ICE got weaponised in this format precisely because the US Military wanted no part of thuggery, eg this 2020 memo: https://www.jcs.mil/Portals/36/Documents/CJCS%20Memo%20to%20the%20Joint%20Force%20(02JUN2020).pdf https://www.jcs.mil/Portals/36/Documents/CJCS%20Memo%20to%20... Is this a reasonable theory?
    - recursivecaveat 9mo ago
      Interesting, where did you move?
      - aebtebeten 9mo ago
        Switzerland. Politics has gotten more polarised away from the centre towards the extremes here as well, but it's still a long way from a two-party state: https://www.aboutswitzerland.eda.admin.ch/en/political-parties https://www.aboutswitzerland.eda.admin.ch/en/political-parti...
        deleted 9mo ago
        [deleted]
bediger4000 9mo ago
Very clearly, there's zero reason to do what Trump's ICE is doing, house-to-house searches, violating first amendment rights, not following laws, shooting bystanders. Minnesota is not what Trump depicts. The reason is probably because Tim Walz ran against Trump in 2024. What's the desired end point here? Just to prove that nobody can run against Trump? Trump will use his personally loyal security force to make any opponent's city a smoking crater? What does that get Trump, or his successor Republican? Why would anyone in any state where Trump cuts off already allocated federal spending vote for him ever again, much less why would Minnesota?
PolygonSheep 9mo ago
It will stand. Walz, Frey, & Co. have zero intention of protecting their citizens from ICE predation. The local police sit on their hands. But I'm sure this strongly worded editorial will get Trump to reconsider.
- hairofadog 9mo ago
  I'm asking this in good faith, but what can they do? The Trump administration is absolutely salivating for armed pushback. I think the best they can logistically do is refuse to help ICE (as local police are doing in some cities).
tedkimble 9mo ago
If you live in Minnesota, please consider helping me transform rural politics. I’m the chair of the Agrarian Party of Minnesota [1], and candidate for the 20B legislative seat. Please consider running for office and providing a new hope for republicanism. I also seek help moving our statutes to a version control system, among other technical tools. [1]: https://agrarianparty.org/ https://agrarianparty.org/
- tedkimble 9mo ago
  PS: if you have a contact for Governor Ventura, please help connect us.
burnt-resistor 9mo ago
Robby Roadsteamer (giraffe w/ g-string) was on Democracy Now! in two silent clips because ICE goons went across the street to arrest him specifically in retaliation. He was released within 5 minutes because of his army of lawyers waiting on the side and social media presence. Totally lawless 1a violations. https://youtu.be/_IwSFqKc7-4 https://youtu.be/_IwSFqKc7-4

51 points by fizl 9mo ago

General Strike. Shut down the economy until ICE is out. Put the Trump administration under economic siege. It is peaceful, and it will work.

DoctorOW 9mo ago
The problem I've found is coordinating. The idea that we need a sizable chunk of the country to all work together in leaderless organization, is noble but lofty. Every attempt I've ever seen is something extremely easy for the feds to disrupt like a Facebook, Reddit, or Discord group, where everyone collectively bikesheds and no decisions get made.
- buellerbueller 9mo ago
  Completely agree; it's a classic game theory problem. One could start with every union that could be gotten on board, perhaps?
mindslight 9mo ago
I always see "general strike" mentioned as if it's some powerful solution to work towards. But even ignoring the practicalities of organizing such a thing, I don't understand how the effects would be helpful. It's not like the brownshirts would go on strike, Trump is happy to print trillions of dollars in new debt, it would impoverish many of the very people working against this, and the type of society-wrecking chaos would appear to be exactly what Trump (ie his foreign handlers) want.
- buellerbueller 9mo ago
  It will very definitely crash the economy, eventually, regardless of the known issues you point out.
  - mindslight 9mo ago
    Yes, sure. But this appears to be one of Trump's goals as well. Every single policy seems designed to irredeemably wreck our country - riffing off of longstanding frustrations of Republicans and ostensibly framed in terms of addressing them so they cheer in support, but implemented so terribly wrong that it's hard to keep assuming mere incompetence rather than an active hybrid warfare attack.

diogenescynic 9mo ago

[flagged]

jmathai 9mo ago
> when Obama deported 3M+ illegals, the sanctuary cities helped and the media didn't cover it like it was Nazi Germany Perhaps it has to do with the method used? I don't think most people are in favor of illegal immigration. That would be an extremist view. Most people are probably somewhere in the middle and I don't think that band is too wide.
- diogenescynic 9mo ago
  >Perhaps it has to do with the method used? It was different because the sanctuary cities turned over lists of the students whose parents weren't citizens. It made it a lot easier. Also no media coverage. You won't know if the tactics were any different because democrat cities actually complied with the law. Again, it goes to democrats being hypocrites and selectively caring/enforcing issues when they think people are paying attention. >I don't think most people are in favor of illegal immigration. That would be an extremist view. Most people are probably somewhere in the middle and I don't think that band is too wide. Yep, I live in California and we require immigration for a lot of jobs and industries. I'm not against immigration... in a past life I worked in immigration law. I am against this selective enforcement of the law depending on who is the President. You can't run a country like this.
  - nullocator 9mo ago
    many citations needed. You seem so fixated on communities not helping ICE to your satisfaction that you're blinded by ICE's atrocities. I guess your admission that you are an ICE employee or adjacent is enough explanation for that though.
    - diogenescynic 9mo ago
      Immigration law != Law enforcement I worked for immigrants (and the companies sponsoring immigrants). That said I am nuanced individual and believe in legal immigration and I think Biden letting in tens of millions illegally and all these sanctuary cities was eventually going to create some kind of legal conflict. It's obvious that municipal law cannot supersede federal law.

thomassmith65 9mo ago

I don't know what gets through to the average voter. Maybe Jesse Ventura: https://youtube.com/watch?v=udSUbBhA8I0 https://youtube.com/watch?v=udSUbBhA8I0

diogenescynic 9mo ago
We're going to have to wait until Boomers age out to get any form of common sense government. They've absolutely been the most damaging generation and will leave a wake of destruction for future generations to recover (or not) from.
- aebtebeten 9mo ago
  Waiting doesn't work; ask me how I know :-) (I voted with my feet instead: it only takes ~2 years to learn a language) Actual substantive comment: My personal theory (looking from this side of the Atlantic) is that ICE got weaponised in this format precisely because the US Military wanted no part of thuggery, eg this 2020 memo: https://www.jcs.mil/Portals/36/Documents/CJCS%20Memo%20to%20the%20Joint%20Force%20(02JUN2020).pdf https://www.jcs.mil/Portals/36/Documents/CJCS%20Memo%20to%20... Is this a reasonable theory?
  - recursivecaveat 9mo ago
    Interesting, where did you move?
    - aebtebeten 9mo ago
      Switzerland. Politics has gotten more polarised away from the centre towards the extremes here as well, but it's still a long way from a two-party state: https://www.aboutswitzerland.eda.admin.ch/en/political-parties https://www.aboutswitzerland.eda.admin.ch/en/political-parti...
      - deleted 9mo ago
        [deleted]

bediger4000 9mo ago

Very clearly, there's zero reason to do what Trump's ICE is doing, house-to-house searches, violating first amendment rights, not following laws, shooting bystanders. Minnesota is not what Trump depicts. The reason is probably because Tim Walz ran against Trump in 2024. What's the desired end point here? Just to prove that nobody can run against Trump? Trump will use his personally loyal security force to make any opponent's city a smoking crater? What does that get Trump, or his successor Republican? Why would anyone in any state where Trump cuts off already allocated federal spending vote for him ever again, much less why would Minnesota?

PolygonSheep 9mo ago

It will stand. Walz, Frey, & Co. have zero intention of protecting their citizens from ICE predation. The local police sit on their hands. But I'm sure this strongly worded editorial will get Trump to reconsider.

hairofadog 9mo ago
I'm asking this in good faith, but what can they do? The Trump administration is absolutely salivating for armed pushback. I think the best they can logistically do is refuse to help ICE (as local police are doing in some cities).

tedkimble 9mo ago

If you live in Minnesota, please consider helping me transform rural politics. I’m the chair of the Agrarian Party of Minnesota [1], and candidate for the 20B legislative seat. Please consider running for office and providing a new hope for republicanism. I also seek help moving our statutes to a version control system, among other technical tools. [1]: https://agrarianparty.org/ https://agrarianparty.org/

tedkimble 9mo ago
PS: if you have a contact for Governor Ventura, please help connect us.

burnt-resistor 9mo ago

Robby Roadsteamer (giraffe w/ g-string) was on Democracy Now! in two silent clips because ICE goons went across the street to arrest him specifically in retaliation. He was released within 5 minutes because of his army of lawyers waiting on the side and social media presence. Totally lawless 1a violations. https://youtu.be/_IwSFqKc7-4 https://youtu.be/_IwSFqKc7-4