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I'm extremely skeptical of financial solutions to this problem. One of the most fundamental reasons for my own personal loneliness is that, in many of the conn

I'm extremely skeptical of financial solutions to this problem. One of the most fundamental reasons for my own personal loneliness is that, in many of the connections I've made, they simply do not feel sincere, genuine, authentic, and simply because the other person clearly has a different motivation for "caring" about me than actually caring about me. For example, the churchgoers I've met have always felt like they were only spending time with me to get me to become a member of their church. They were eager to throw money at me if I lost my job, or offer to help me move, but never wanted to get coffee outside church hours. Therapists are another example, obviously financially incentivized to talk to me. There are definitely some who care simply because it's part of their personality, but that still says nothing about me and any connection they have with me. And I shared a story elsewhere here of a priest who I had literally just met minutes before, and who actually went in for a hug the moment I mentioned having a hard time with something, as if this random hug from a complete stranger meant anything other than him following a virtue signalling script. No, I am convinced that the solution must be free, it must be volunteers doing it without anyone knowing about it, without the belief that they're earning brownie points from God or gaining a potential member of some organization, and without getting paid or rewarded for it, except for the reward of having a new and worthwhile friendship with the lonely person.

m_dupont 9mo ago
I say this with the best of intentions: that cynicism of yours will keep you lonely
- publicdebates 9mo ago
  Not at all. In fact, once I learned to raise my standards for friendship, I now have significantly higher quality ones. I have a small handful of people who I talk to regularly, who I genuinely listen to, and who genuinely listen to me, who genuinely enjoy my company, and whose company I genuinely enjoy, whether in small talk or deep conversations, serious topics or lighthearted fun. These people give me by far the most joy in my life out of any relationships I've ever had before. And it's because we worked toward it the right way, and built our way up to it, finding common interests and building a real, organic connection from them.
deleted 9mo ago
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bad_haircut72 9mo ago
Im curious if you ever genuinely show care for anyone else expecting nothing in return? Why do they have to do it first?
Dilettante_ 9mo ago
It's a little like being invited to things out of pity, by people who know that you don't have any friends and struggle socially: It's nice, and I do feel their kindness from the gesture. But in the end, I only feel more isolated. I want people to hang out because they enjoy it, not out of charity. The social connection just isn't there, there's no sense of belonging, quite the opposite.
- s1mplicissimus 9mo ago
  > I want people to hang out because they enjoy it, not out of charity Maybe think about how you can behave so they can enjoy hanging out with you? Make it easy for them, that way you'll believe it :)
  - Dilettante_ 9mo ago
    That's the next part of the problem: Masking. If I'm only performing so that other people like me, again I am not actually connecting with them. If I don't care about football but everyone else does, we are not actually sharing anything if I force myself to talk about football. I feel just as rejected and distant as before. And if I was on the other end, I would also not want that, for people to just twist themselves into a shape that suits me, right? What I'm looking for, what I desire is mutuality. A space where I'm not in debt for just being there, don't have to force myself to "pay back" other's presence.
    - publicdebates 9mo ago
      Exactly. We want to be our authentic selves, be appreciated for it, find people who find value in what we offer, and find reciprocation. Which excludes people spending time with you out of pity, and excludes people faking enjoyment or you faking it either.
    - s1mplicissimus 9mo ago
      Sounds like a difficult situation, and I think I can relate - I hope for you that you can find some people who you actually enjoy hanging out with and who appreciate you for who you are. We all have our little quirks, and part of a good relationship is to graciously "overlook" them. That is not twisting yourself, it's accommodating your counterpart. For personal stuff, it often helps me to get out of my head to redirect the thoughts from "what do I want" to "what do they want and how can I give it to them". Once I started considering others wants more, i also noticed more when they were gracious towards me, which, I think, made me a bit less of an ungrateful dipshit and generally easier to be around. Wish you all the best!

m_dupont 9mo ago

I say this with the best of intentions: that cynicism of yours will keep you lonely

publicdebates 9mo ago
Not at all. In fact, once I learned to raise my standards for friendship, I now have significantly higher quality ones. I have a small handful of people who I talk to regularly, who I genuinely listen to, and who genuinely listen to me, who genuinely enjoy my company, and whose company I genuinely enjoy, whether in small talk or deep conversations, serious topics or lighthearted fun. These people give me by far the most joy in my life out of any relationships I've ever had before. And it's because we worked toward it the right way, and built our way up to it, finding common interests and building a real, organic connection from them.

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]

bad_haircut72 9mo ago

Im curious if you ever genuinely show care for anyone else expecting nothing in return? Why do they have to do it first?

Dilettante_ 9mo ago

It's a little like being invited to things out of pity, by people who know that you don't have any friends and struggle socially: It's nice, and I do feel their kindness from the gesture. But in the end, I only feel more isolated. I want people to hang out because they enjoy it, not out of charity. The social connection just isn't there, there's no sense of belonging, quite the opposite.

s1mplicissimus 9mo ago
> I want people to hang out because they enjoy it, not out of charity Maybe think about how you can behave so they can enjoy hanging out with you? Make it easy for them, that way you'll believe it :)
- Dilettante_ 9mo ago
  That's the next part of the problem: Masking. If I'm only performing so that other people like me, again I am not actually connecting with them. If I don't care about football but everyone else does, we are not actually sharing anything if I force myself to talk about football. I feel just as rejected and distant as before. And if I was on the other end, I would also not want that, for people to just twist themselves into a shape that suits me, right? What I'm looking for, what I desire is mutuality. A space where I'm not in debt for just being there, don't have to force myself to "pay back" other's presence.
  - publicdebates 9mo ago
    Exactly. We want to be our authentic selves, be appreciated for it, find people who find value in what we offer, and find reciprocation. Which excludes people spending time with you out of pity, and excludes people faking enjoyment or you faking it either.
  - s1mplicissimus 9mo ago
    Sounds like a difficult situation, and I think I can relate - I hope for you that you can find some people who you actually enjoy hanging out with and who appreciate you for who you are. We all have our little quirks, and part of a good relationship is to graciously "overlook" them. That is not twisting yourself, it's accommodating your counterpart. For personal stuff, it often helps me to get out of my head to redirect the thoughts from "what do I want" to "what do they want and how can I give it to them". Once I started considering others wants more, i also noticed more when they were gracious towards me, which, I think, made me a bit less of an ungrateful dipshit and generally easier to be around. Wish you all the best!