8 ms·

There's a few problems, at least in the US: 1. Hyper-perfect social media / television setting "the best" expectations for an event. 2. Decreased knowledge of

by ethbr1 9mo ago

There's a few problems, at least in the US: 1. Hyper-perfect social media / television setting "the best" expectations for an event. 2. Decreased knowledge of how to host a gathering. It's not rocket science, but throwing one the first time can seem daunting. And throwing one well does take skill. E.g. icebreakers, identifying and facilitating the right introductions by highlighting mutual interests, making sure wallflowers have a good time, defusing tensions, food, etc. 3. Decreased American tolerance for and ability to handle awkwardness, and there's always going to be some awkwardness in social interactions. 4. Decreased public/accessible American meeting places. There used to (< 2000) be a plethora of low-cost, broadly-accessible spaces that could serve as training wheels for events (handling food, furnishings, cleaning, etc). They've essentially all been privatized, commercialized, and optimized to turn seats -- think real coffee shops disappearing in favor of Starbucks.

publicdebates 9mo ago
> 3. Decreased American tolerance for and ability to handle awkwardness, and there's always going to be some awkwardness in social interactions. I wonder how much of this is due to our ever increasing sense of obligation to be "performing" all the time. Maybe increased by the perpetual presence of social media and the habits and mindset that both creating and consuming for it creates.
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
- ethbr1 9mo ago
  I thought that originally, but I actually think it's more experiential/exposure-side. Hypothesis: modern society (especially apps) has decreased the amount of realtime, face-to-face social interactions at all stages of life, which has eventually manifested into a decreased average (there are still some social people!) capability to deal with social awkwardness. And consequently less comfort/appetite for putting oneself in situations where it might happen.
  - bradlys 9mo ago
    I don’t think it’s this. I’ve lived in NYC recently and people there don’t have tolerance for shit behaviors either and you’re surrounded by people all the time. It’s due to people having higher standards than before and being bifurcated on every issue. There is deep polarization and tribalism within American culture. Everyone consumes different content and there’s very little homogeneity within our culture. Like… Americans are more diverse than ever in terms of their thoughts and behaviors. They genuinely have little in common compared to many other cultures.
    - ethbr1 9mo ago
      I'll buy that, especially in NYC-like urban environments where frequency of exposure is definitely not the issue. Suburbs and rural may be different. Part of the increased diversity is unavoidable due to technological changes eroding previous touchpoints. E.g. limited broadcast TV becoming cable becoming streaming. But there does seem to be an increasing dearth of the logical tonic: discussion-facilitating diverse spaces. Places where people of different opinions can mingle, there are strong social norms around mutually productive conversation (and enforcement to discourage / weed out poison apples?), and that are open to new people.
tsunamifury 9mo ago
I’m going to add a strange note here: I recently moved into a very upper class neighborhood (pacific heights) and enrolled my child in the neighborhood private school. The social hosting skill I’ve observed and and able to do as well is extraordinarily high. People throw parties, know how to act, are cordial and polite and seem to reasonably enjoy each others company while also teaching their children the same. This is how I remember mere middle class parents acting in the late 90s and early 2000s but my fellow millennials and z seem to be completely incapable of. One huge aspect I’ve noticed is that it’s wildly expensive in time and money to host. An open cocktail night cost me nearly 3000 dollars to host. I can imagine this would not be common for Gen Z these days.
- deeg 9mo ago
  That seems to be a very narrow definition of a party. I have friends over for pizza and board games. We've had ice cream making parties. Cheese dinners.
  - tsunamifury 9mo ago
    This is fine too. Seems like most can’t even attempt that though.
    - oblio 9mo ago
      Can't or won't?
- notenoughhorses 9mo ago
  I am a millennial and my parents did no events, since they both worked and had long commutes. I wonder when the middle class entertainment slowed down—I want to guess it’s when you have more two income households, that don’t earn enough to hire home help.
  - vee-kay 9mo ago
    Minimum wages have not increased in decades. Cost of living has increased a lot meanwhile, and the rich vs poor divide has increased. So lower class and middle class are suffering, while upper class have become richer from their labors. In earlier generations, the middle class could work for some years and afford to buy a house (on mortgage). But these days, middle class cannot afford a house, they live in rented apartments. Hosting parties is the least of their priorities, when they are struggling with the monthly bills.
stevage 9mo ago
I believe this. My recipe for not burning out is: - lower expectations (my own and everyone else's). I work out the bare minimum that would work for the event and do that. People need food. They don't need music. - tell people how to contribute: "bring snacks and drinks", ask one specific person to bring ice. when people arrive I often give specific tasks: "can you find someone to help move the table and chairs into the other room", "can you sort out music" - do it the same way every time so it's less mentally taxing - get a friend to help with setup
- strken 9mo ago
  Lower expectations is a great tip. I find that the more a group does things, the more everyone chills out. It's like the expectations come from a fear of being judged and from uncertainty. When everyone has information from the last ten events then you don't need to stress anymore, because everyone knows how this one will go and they've all judged one another already.
  - stevage 9mo ago
    It helps to remember that you are competing with: no event. If there are other parties happening and you're trying to make a better one, by all means, go all out. But mostly people in their 40s aren't going to many house events, so they're just happy to be somewhere with people. They don't care that you didn't decorate or sweep the floor or prepare an elaborate meal. You made soup and they're thrilled.
    - ethbr1 9mo ago
      I'd also add that first-event nerves (on host and attendee sides) can be an uncertainty problem. No one wants to misunderstand the dress code, social code, etc. Once people have been together, there are now group norms that assuage that (aka "I know what's acceptable to wear and talk about").
- sailfast 9mo ago
  Absolutely. I throw “open houses” with open hours. There will be some food and company and some booze. Probably music. But in the end everyone brings what they can and it rules. Granted it’s still a lot of effort but it’s low key and I find people prefer that unless it gets enough momentum to become a “thing” haha
c16 9mo ago
> Hyper-perfect social media / television setting "the best" expectations for an event. My approach around this is suggesting the idea to people up front and then throwing everyone into a WhatsApp chat and laying down the plan. Anyone who can't join gets removed/leaves. No one expects a whatsapp group to be a refined VIP experience. It's just people getting together and sharing an experience. Having moved countries and needing to start up a new friend group, things like Meetup or Facebook groups help a lot. There are _many_ people out there who are looking to meet people. For throwing a party, my general rule of thumb is expect 50% of people to turn up.
globular-toast 9mo ago
It used to be predominantly women who did it. It was part of being a housewife. Joy of Cooking even has an entire chapter dedicated to hosting a dinner party. But now women work for billionaires too. Nobody has time to work for themselves.
- ethbr1 9mo ago
  1000%, but I didn't want to make my post too long. If you want a kick, read through the 1957 edition of Air Force Social Customs [0]. It makes you realize how the art of entertaining has atrophied over the decades. [0] https://archive.org/details/answerbookonairf00wier/mode/1up https://archive.org/details/answerbookonairf00wier/mode/1up
neuralRiot 9mo ago
>Decreased knowledge of how to host a gathering. I have my own saying for this. “Swimming is how you learn to swim”

by ethbr1 9mo ago

publicdebates 9mo ago

> 3. Decreased American tolerance for and ability to handle awkwardness, and there's always going to be some awkwardness in social interactions. I wonder how much of this is due to our ever increasing sense of obligation to be "performing" all the time. Maybe increased by the perpetual presence of social media and the habits and mindset that both creating and consuming for it creates.

deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
ethbr1 9mo ago
I thought that originally, but I actually think it's more experiential/exposure-side. Hypothesis: modern society (especially apps) has decreased the amount of realtime, face-to-face social interactions at all stages of life, which has eventually manifested into a decreased average (there are still some social people!) capability to deal with social awkwardness. And consequently less comfort/appetite for putting oneself in situations where it might happen.
- bradlys 9mo ago
  I don’t think it’s this. I’ve lived in NYC recently and people there don’t have tolerance for shit behaviors either and you’re surrounded by people all the time. It’s due to people having higher standards than before and being bifurcated on every issue. There is deep polarization and tribalism within American culture. Everyone consumes different content and there’s very little homogeneity within our culture. Like… Americans are more diverse than ever in terms of their thoughts and behaviors. They genuinely have little in common compared to many other cultures.
  - ethbr1 9mo ago
    I'll buy that, especially in NYC-like urban environments where frequency of exposure is definitely not the issue. Suburbs and rural may be different. Part of the increased diversity is unavoidable due to technological changes eroding previous touchpoints. E.g. limited broadcast TV becoming cable becoming streaming. But there does seem to be an increasing dearth of the logical tonic: discussion-facilitating diverse spaces. Places where people of different opinions can mingle, there are strong social norms around mutually productive conversation (and enforcement to discourage / weed out poison apples?), and that are open to new people.

tsunamifury 9mo ago

I’m going to add a strange note here: I recently moved into a very upper class neighborhood (pacific heights) and enrolled my child in the neighborhood private school. The social hosting skill I’ve observed and and able to do as well is extraordinarily high. People throw parties, know how to act, are cordial and polite and seem to reasonably enjoy each others company while also teaching their children the same. This is how I remember mere middle class parents acting in the late 90s and early 2000s but my fellow millennials and z seem to be completely incapable of. One huge aspect I’ve noticed is that it’s wildly expensive in time and money to host. An open cocktail night cost me nearly 3000 dollars to host. I can imagine this would not be common for Gen Z these days.

deeg 9mo ago
That seems to be a very narrow definition of a party. I have friends over for pizza and board games. We've had ice cream making parties. Cheese dinners.
- tsunamifury 9mo ago
  This is fine too. Seems like most can’t even attempt that though.
  - oblio 9mo ago
    Can't or won't?
notenoughhorses 9mo ago
I am a millennial and my parents did no events, since they both worked and had long commutes. I wonder when the middle class entertainment slowed down—I want to guess it’s when you have more two income households, that don’t earn enough to hire home help.
- vee-kay 9mo ago
  Minimum wages have not increased in decades. Cost of living has increased a lot meanwhile, and the rich vs poor divide has increased. So lower class and middle class are suffering, while upper class have become richer from their labors. In earlier generations, the middle class could work for some years and afford to buy a house (on mortgage). But these days, middle class cannot afford a house, they live in rented apartments. Hosting parties is the least of their priorities, when they are struggling with the monthly bills.

stevage 9mo ago

I believe this. My recipe for not burning out is: - lower expectations (my own and everyone else's). I work out the bare minimum that would work for the event and do that. People need food. They don't need music. - tell people how to contribute: "bring snacks and drinks", ask one specific person to bring ice. when people arrive I often give specific tasks: "can you find someone to help move the table and chairs into the other room", "can you sort out music" - do it the same way every time so it's less mentally taxing - get a friend to help with setup

strken 9mo ago
Lower expectations is a great tip. I find that the more a group does things, the more everyone chills out. It's like the expectations come from a fear of being judged and from uncertainty. When everyone has information from the last ten events then you don't need to stress anymore, because everyone knows how this one will go and they've all judged one another already.
- stevage 9mo ago
  It helps to remember that you are competing with: no event. If there are other parties happening and you're trying to make a better one, by all means, go all out. But mostly people in their 40s aren't going to many house events, so they're just happy to be somewhere with people. They don't care that you didn't decorate or sweep the floor or prepare an elaborate meal. You made soup and they're thrilled.
  - ethbr1 9mo ago
    I'd also add that first-event nerves (on host and attendee sides) can be an uncertainty problem. No one wants to misunderstand the dress code, social code, etc. Once people have been together, there are now group norms that assuage that (aka "I know what's acceptable to wear and talk about").
sailfast 9mo ago
Absolutely. I throw “open houses” with open hours. There will be some food and company and some booze. Probably music. But in the end everyone brings what they can and it rules. Granted it’s still a lot of effort but it’s low key and I find people prefer that unless it gets enough momentum to become a “thing” haha

c16 9mo ago

> Hyper-perfect social media / television setting "the best" expectations for an event. My approach around this is suggesting the idea to people up front and then throwing everyone into a WhatsApp chat and laying down the plan. Anyone who can't join gets removed/leaves. No one expects a whatsapp group to be a refined VIP experience. It's just people getting together and sharing an experience. Having moved countries and needing to start up a new friend group, things like Meetup or Facebook groups help a lot. There are _many_ people out there who are looking to meet people. For throwing a party, my general rule of thumb is expect 50% of people to turn up.

globular-toast 9mo ago

It used to be predominantly women who did it. It was part of being a housewife. Joy of Cooking even has an entire chapter dedicated to hosting a dinner party. But now women work for billionaires too. Nobody has time to work for themselves.

ethbr1 9mo ago
1000%, but I didn't want to make my post too long. If you want a kick, read through the 1957 edition of Air Force Social Customs [0]. It makes you realize how the art of entertaining has atrophied over the decades. [0] https://archive.org/details/answerbookonairf00wier/mode/1up https://archive.org/details/answerbookonairf00wier/mode/1up

neuralRiot 9mo ago

>Decreased knowledge of how to host a gathering. I have my own saying for this. “Swimming is how you learn to swim”